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Incandescent light bulbs are officially banned in the U.S.::America’s ban on incandescent light bulbs, 16 years in the making, is finally a reality. Well, mostly.
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Well… only 11 yrs after EU… That’s not so bad.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_08_1909
for real though… as an American I would love if we were 11 years behind the EU in lots of other areas
Yep. Even Canada banned most common incandescent bulbs in 2014 and 2015.
You’re 11 years behind us in energy prices as well, so make the most of it.
Nobody’s talking about the real casualty of this shift. What’s going to happen to all the jokes about “how many (insert category of person here) does it take to change a light bulb?” now that people don’t have to regularly change light bulbs anymore?
As someone living in the EU where incandescent bulbs have been banned for over a decade, I can assure you that changing lightbulbs is still a thing. Not as frequently, but it happens, especially if you buy cheaper brands LED bulbs. They definitely does not have the longevity that they advertise.
Don’t worry, many have shitty drivers that will fail and poor cooling that will kill the diodes.
Or the old riddle of having to match 3 lights to 3 switches with only one guess, since the solution relied on the bulb getting hot and LEDs barely get warm.
Wait what is this riddle
I think it’s along the lines of “you’re in a room with three lightswitches. They control three lightbulbs in a different room (so you can’t see them from the room with the switches). You get some time to use the switches, and then you go to the other room and have to guess what switch controls what lightbulb. You aren’t allowed to go back and flip the switches again once you leave.” The solution generally is to flip one switch, leave one off, and flip the last one on for awhile but then turn it off just before you leave to go to the other room. The lightbulb that’s lit obviously goes with the switch you flipped on, and the other two are off. One of these two will be warm though, because it was recently turned on, and that one goes to the switch you flipped on and then off.
It’s an old riddle where a room has three lights and outside the room is the panel with three switches. They’re not labeled and you don’t know which switch controls which bulb. You’re allowed to switch any two, then you get to open the door and you have to determine which switches control which lights.
The solution is, that you flip switch #1, wait five minutes and then flip switch #2. Then you immediately go into the room.
Two lights will be on, meaning the bulb that’s off is the third switch. Then you feel the bulbs that are on: the one that’s warm already is the #1 and the other that’s on but still cool is #2.
LEDs don’t heat up like that so this technique is broken.
Mine heat up. Not hot, but definitely warm at the base. LED bulbs convert 25-50% of the electrical energy to light. The rest is heat. So a 9W LED bulb is a 4-6 watt heater.
“A windowless room contains three identical light fixtures, each containing an identical light bulb or light globe. Each light is connected to one of three switches outside of the room. Each bulb is switched off at present. You are outside the room, and the door is closed. Before opening the door you may play around with the light switches as many times as you like. But once you’ve opened the door, you may no longer touch a switch. After this, you go into the room and examine the lights. How can you tell which switch goes to which light?”
The solution is:
- Turn two switches on, leave one off
- Wait a few minutes
- Turn one of the “on” switches off
Now, when you enter the room, you’ll have one lit bulb, one warm unlit bulb, and one cold unlit bulb, letting you solve the riddle.
No single LED lightbulb I’ve ever purchased lasts as long as they claim. infact, many have been outlasted by existing incandescent bulbs in my house. your joke fodder is safe.
I’ve had one or two LED bulbs die, which is why I switched to buying “energy star” rated bulbs. As part of the accreditation process, they need to certify the lifespan
The only LED bulbs I’ve bought that haven’t blown within a year are my Philips hue bulbs. They are expensive but they are all I’ll buy now, and my girlfriend and I love setting them to relaxing colors in the evening while we relax together on the couch
Don’t just buy cheap shit. And get your wire/vakuum/kitchen appliance checked for spikes.
you assume much.
And here I am imagining walking down the street one day and there’s a crazy hobo wandering around waving a vacuum cleaner in everyone’s face screaming “CAN YOU SEE THE SPIKES? ARE THEY THERE?”
I have a bunch I bought in 2016 that are still going strong. Only stopped using them because we wanted cooler lighting and they’re all pretty warm. We’ve had like 4 or 5 out of the original 50 or so that stopped working though.
My LED bulbs have hilariously short lives. I suspect the wiring in my apartment is just not that great because lights do flicker from time to time. But that didn’t seem to hurt incandescent bulbs. I’m lucky if my LEDs last even one year, never mind the 10 or 20 some of them claim.
What am I supposed to do, but my overhead light fixtures on a UPS?!
You are right that local electricity might be in play. I’ve lived in the same house for 6 years and I’ve not had a single light fail. We replaced most bulbs when we moved in because they were mostly CFLs. It’s been great. But I wouldn’t put it past LED manufacturers, even name brand ones, from cheaping out on the bad power protections.
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I think one of my 1st gen philips hue color bulbs just went out a couple weeks ago. Of course I’ve yet to open up the fixture and confirm it since the other one in there is still plenty bright.
I’ve been using LED bulbs for a good number of years, I’ve only had one or two die on me. The longevity alone makes them much better than incandescent, but then they use a tenth the power.
My favorite is the A15 Edison style. That’s the appliance size, smaller than the standard A19. The A15 fits in everything so I only need to stock one size.
My mom buys these cheap LED bulbs from Amazon and about half burn out quickly (probably 10% are DOA).
We have 100% LEDs throughout our fifth wheel (about 30 of them), and they are all still going strong (all installed in 2015, and used daily since then).
I think there’s a serious difference in quality available and it certainly shows.
Honestly as somebody who’s been watching big clive’s channel I would never recommend anybody to buy those cheap LEDs from Amazon because there’s a non-insignificant risk that they may burn your house down.
I started switching to LEDs 8 years ago. Every single one of them is still working. It used to be that bulbs should be changed every year or two.
I don’t remember the last time I changed a light bulb at home
I’ve also had very different results, depending on brand. Definitely avoid the cheap stuff
Now I have the opposite problem: brands and styles change too much. What do you do when one bulb of a multi-bulb fixture burns out, but they’ve all outlasted the brand or style? I do already have a drawer full of LED bulbs that I replaced so the fixture would match, and can’t always find a fixture with fewer bulbs
Just fucking yesterday out of 12 Nisko high CRI bulbs around the house one just stopped working. All of them are mere one year old.
And those high cri ones are the most expensive ones. Lets see how much time the others survive… ill keep you posted.
I still have some I bought 15 years ago at Ikea, still working. Most I exchanged because of the rapid technical development in the one and a half decade not because they stopped working.
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I don’t know what kind of shit LEDs you’ve been buying but I’ve yet to ever have to replace one. Been using them for many years already.
LED’s produce a lot of heat at higher “wattages”. IE: the 75w+ equivalents can throw out some heat. And if its recessed in a can or upside down on a chandelier but with a decorative covering, they will often go out due to heat. Hell I have seen some with giant heatsinks on them to try and compensate.
I had a series of 150w LED’s i was burning through. Eventually I moved to just replace the bulb and fixture with a ceiling light like this
LED’s are also sensitive to dirty power, probably more-so than Incandescents. I have run through some because of surges and brownouts as well.
I generally use Phillips brand LED bulbs if it helps, but do have some others.
Finally, the lower wattage bulbs (ie: 10-15w equivalent) will sometimes have a “pulse” to it. Dimmer LED’s also tend to do this, and you often have to tune the dimmer switch to a higher brightness for “low” to compensate.
All that said, they are still leaps and bounds better.
They generate lots less heat that an equivalent incandescent bulb. It’s most likely the dirty power problem you’ve described.
They do. But incandescent bulbs don’t have circuitry prone to heating failures. It’s just a filament.
So it’s not an equivalency thing.
Funny you mention Phillips because that’s the brand I like, too. Just recommended it to someone here in fact.
I’m not sure what wattage my ceiling fixtures are; I’ll check.
Yeah. they are generally my favorite as well.
These were the ones I was running through like crazy in my kitchen. Storms often meant they would fail. I edited my original comment and posted a pic of the design i moved to since the can they sat in didnt evacuate heat well at all.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08667M3BR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Frankly i tend to stick with one brand in general because it provides a consisten light color (ie: 5000k or 3500k warm yellow etc). Rando brands say 5000k daylight but are slightly off and it drives me nuts.
I have some in warm yellow on certain fixtures and others in daylight for other fixtures. The warm yellow ones we will use at night. (i have a large number of light fixtures in my house for some reason to, which makes this easier)
I have 9W LEDs which are about 80-90W equivalent. They are barely warmer than room temperature after hours of working.
I have a DIY LED light for my herbs running at 45W (400W equivalent?) and it’s like 40° after 12 hours. I run it 12 hours 365 days a year with zero issues.
There can only be two reasons for overheating: issues with your power supply or your LED bulbs have electrical issues from the factory.
Quite literally the less heat they emit per unit of power they consume the more efficient they are, so this is very much an area were getting the more efficient LED light bulbs (which in the consumer space are the filament ones) will both reduce heat waste AND save you power per unit of light emitted.
(In fact you should select these things on light emited - i.e. lumens - rather than on wattage and even for the same lumens aim for the fewer watts as possible since that means they consume less for the same results, which, as pointed above, also mean heat emission as that’s literally power being wasted)
Wut?
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Same experience here. Every single LED lightbulb i’ve bought, since the time I started using them, has outlasted basically everything else I’ve purchased before. It draws less energy and doesn’t produce basically any heat too, which is excellent
You have to give the industry some time to circle the wagons and enshittify led bulbs so that they only last 10,000 hours
You’re going to want to replace them when they stop getting security updates…
That’s really dependent on local regulation, and wether or not you bought products licensed to be sold where you live or random imports from AliExpress.
My smart LED lights were bought in 2017, they are still working perfectly and have zero signs of issues - same brightness, same connection strength, same white point. The only exception was precisely the cheapo desk lamp one I bought from an online reseller, that one lasted a year and the control board fried itself.
I buy all my stuff at Target, Walmart, or Home Depot. I have to replace my LED bulbs just as much if not more than I ever had to with Incandescents. In my last house I had incandescents that lasted the entire 8 years I was there, while I replaced other leds multiple times.
By the choice of stores, I’m guessing American?
That’s why I said “local regulations” matter. In countries where govermental bodies aren’t afraid of limiting how companies can screw over customers, bulbs last longer.
I can tell you from having looked into becoming an importer of those things maybe a decade ago that the very EU rules for the CE mark (a requirement for them to be allowed to be imported for sale into the EU) cover things like failure rates (max 5% in the first year), minimum hours without failure (10,000 and models must actually be tested on it in order to be certified), loss of brightness with age, minimum CRI and so on.
So yeah, buy them from chinese sellers on Amazon or Aliexpress and you’re importing them yourself for personal use in which case no such rules need apply (if doing that I recommend purchasing only from those sellers that mention their product has a CE mark).
In the US, were “consumer right” tend to be this wierd thing that only wimpy eutopean worry about, I suspect there are nowhere the same level of rules (probably the bare minimum for mains wired devices which is pretty much “won’t just randomly kill users”), which would mean the stuff carried by the local sellers is China-quality-at-American-prices, so basically the Aliexpress quality but with extra cost to pay the fat bonus of the CEO of the large retail surface.
PS: As a side note to anybody interested in using the CE mark as the minimum standard for their own LED light bulb purchases, look at the packaging: there are very specific rules for the packaging itself, so for example it has to list the brightness (in lumen) with more proeminence than the wattage and also has the energy rating (including a standard design with a graph of horizontal bars) so these things are pretty easy to spot from the packaging of the light bulb.
The first time I bought a CFL bulb that was supposed to last 10 years (or whatever the claim was), I turned the lamp on exactly 2 times and it blew. I was pissed, I spend like $15 on that thing. I bought an incandescent bulb to replace it for about $1, which lasted for years and years.
The LED ones seem to be better, but I just talk to a co-worker who spent a bunch of time dealing with LED bulb issues. She thought it was the electricity in her house, because they were dim. Turns out replacing the bulbs fixed it.
There’s a tradeoff with CFL bulbs between longevity and instant action. The normal expectation for a light bulb is to have it at full brightness the moment you flip the switch, but the first CFL bulbs to market often took minutes to reach peak output. Longer if they were cold.
So to meet consumer expectations, manufacturers began designing bulbs that would, on ignition, damage themselves in order to reach peak output faster.
It’s no wonder the CFL bulb failed as a product, you would either get a bulb that would never be bright enough when you needed it, or you got a bulb that would burn itself out just as quickly as any incandescent for twice the price.
electric companies started subsidizing LEDs 10 years ago at box stores. electricity use went down and the bills went up as usual. all the while still burning coal. 🤔 incentives? probably part of the same mandates taxes get spent on
Once they got the white light spectrum figured out I was fine with switching to leds. Less power, didn’t get hot, last longer.
I wonder if this will have any effect on the film industry…
I had always used incandescent bulbs in practicals but now there are LED bulbs made specifically for film sets. Household LED bulbs are usually a mess on camera with ugly color spikes and/or flickering.
I’ve been lighting almost exclusively with LED these days aside from some HMI’s, but even those are starting to get LED competition, at least for smaller ones.
Look at the Power Factor (PF) and Colot Reproduction Index (CRI) of the LED light bulb.
If the former is something like 50% then it means it has a cheap power rectifier inside (little more than a bunch of diodes) which doesn’t at all filter the power fluctuating nature of AC (basically all it does is make the negative side of the sinusoidal wave that’s AC become positve and leaves the whole voltage variance from 0 to max and back untouched) hence the flickering.
The latter quite literally tells you how good the colors look under that lighting. You want at least 90%, with more being better.
Mind you, nowadays CRI is usually not a problem, but the whole cheap power rectification inside the bulb generally is (because a basic power rectifier can cut 10% or more of the manufacturing price of a lightbulb).
Cri is a common specification I see, even if I suspect lots of lying. Where do you find PF information? I don’t remember ever seeing it on any bulb packaging before.
Yeah, that’s the problem: PF is not mandatory to be in the packaging so it’s not usually there.
If you buy online, sometimes you can find it in the product information section.
I’ve noticed that the “usual chinese sellers” will mention it if it’s good (say, 80%) but not when it’s the cheap-converter one (50%).
Alternativelly when looking for the bulbs not likely to flicker you might also look for the “dimmable” ones, as the abiloty for a light lamp to support an external dimmer requirex a better power converter inside the bulb.
Thanks for your response! If you light events with broadcast cameras, I am the annoying video engineer behind the camera controls asking about flicker and color balance. I hope they keep making y’all’s specialty bulbs. Looks like there’s a big list of exceptions!
I would think they’ll be mostly over to LED by now.
The U.S. is pretty late with this, compared to the European Union. Only a few special bulbs are still sold here. Apart from that, the only allowed lighting technology is LED.
This applies to all the things, unfortunately. It must be nice to have a functional union. Even though I’m sure it’s not perfect, progress is made at a decent pace. Our country is hijacked by a cruel/angry/illiterate cult every 1-2 elections, it’s not ideal.
Tell that to the bar I was at last night in Palermo. They had a string of festoon lights going down the laneway and every one of them was incandescent. I noticed the same in Taormina. In fact, Italy seems pretty far behind the rest of the EU when it comes to environmental concerns…but that’s for another thread.
Are you sure they were incandescent bulbs and not just LED bulbs copying the incandescent style? They make a lot of decorative LED bulbs now with straight sections of LEDs to imitate the glowing wire of an incandescent.
Definitely. I’m an electrician, so my eyes are usually drawn to these type of things. Light fittings, outlets, switches, etc.
Specialty lights are still being sold. Plenty of British pubs have special incandescent lights. They are usually quite dim.
I think to update the string of lights you’d need to change transformer. Household bulbs have a driver in the bulb that converts the 230V to the ~12V the bulb uses. But for that string of lights, they’d need to get an electrician (or someone who knows what they’re doing)
While you may need to replace the whole strand, and can’t just swap in individual bulbs, the strand itself has the resistors needed to let the LEDs function, instead of the individual bulbs.
Maybe they still run on “new old stock” bulbs until they are used up. But even if they do, they clearly didn’t do the math. I’ve upgraded all my lighting to LED and binned all my incandescent stock.
I’m sitting inside a house where, presently, all lights turned on at the same time will require 30w. Before we went through all the lights, a single lightbulb would use 45w.
Just by replacing the old light bulbs, we reduced energy consumption and the number of lights required to light a room.
They are not sold anymore, but whatever is left and working can still be used. Many people also bought a ton of incandescents before the selling stopped (tHe lIgHt is sO mUcH bEtTeR!!!)
tHe lIgHt is sO mUcH bEtTeR!!!)
narrator voice: “but it was not”
It generally is though. The look of incandescent and halogen is only rivaled by high end LEDs.
nah. in my experience, even cheaper LED bulbs from discounters can nicely replace old bulbs.
It’s true that what “el-cheapo product” once was done by simply reducing lifetime is currently done with looks.
It can be. Cheap LED lights with low quality AC rectifiers are awful. If those are your point of comparison then yes, incandescent light is better (more steady).
Of course that difference goes away if you just get a better LED light.
Some also have terrible CRI. Nothing like giving everything a subtle green or purple tint.
Wait, you’re telling me cheaper products have worse quality?
Even the “cheap” LED bulbs are still many times more expensive than incandescent, and incandescent will give much better light than poor quality LED.
The LED bulbs have a higher up front cost, but ive not come across a single instance where an incandescent was cheaper when factoring electricity costs.
yeah, i was referring to current tech. First LED or those mercury vapor bulbs were basically useless.
You can definitely get “current” LED bulbs with bad hardware inside still today. See: Everything made by NOMA.
You could also get ultra cheap crappy incendescant bulbs in the past.
how long until there’s a right wing black market for incandescent bulbs like gas stoves prob…
My right wing dad already stocked up
“F*ck efficiency!”
Actually very on brand. hmm…
Yikes. Put a brand new LED bulb in my basement on Sunday. It was dead on Wednesday. Incandescent seems to be the only bulbs that last down there. I better stock up before the stores run dry…
Have you ruled out shitty wiring?
No. For sure it’s shitty wiring. It’s also next to the AC unit, so had a lot of EMF radiation every time the motor kicks on. But incandescent survives all of this for a year or so, while, apparently, LED only survives 3 days.
That sounds like an electrical issue with your basement’s light fixture, not the bulbs. You might wanna get that looked at.
It’s right next to the AC unit and gets a lot of EMF radiation every time the blower motor kicks on. Incandescent survives all of this for a year or so. You are probably right, though. I need to get a tester and see the voltage and amperage coming out of that on a timeline.
I wish the LEDs weren’t such crap. They don’t even last as long as a 60W incandescent a lot of times. The old CFLs last years, I have a few over ten years old.
I’ve been running pure led for 10 years. The only failures I’ve had were in heat prone fixtures not designed for leds
I had CFLs burn out all the time.
My LEDs have all been rock solid. Even the cheap ones.
Mostly capacitor plague or heat. I’ve only lost 2 / 50 in Open fixtures with good airflow over the last three years.
I have one outdoor that pops every spring the fixture is damn near sealed and in direct sunlight, but the HOA demands the fixture.
This hasn’t been my experience at all, I replaced most of the bulbs in my house with LEDs a couple years ago and I don’t think I’ve had to replace a single one since. When they were all incandescent, I was regularly replacing burned out bulbs. Check which brand you’re buying, you’re probably buying crap which is why you’re getting crap. I’ve found Phillips bulbs work great and are long lasting, I have some that’ve been in a fixture for 5 years now with no issue
I haven’t had a filament LED fail on me yet. The cheapest LEDs you can find aren’t worth it; best to get a name brand.
Name brand like Philips don’t die quickly (mostly) but they lose its brightness pretty fast. I have few 12w MyCare™, it’s going strong for like 3 years but it’s now only as bright as my new 6w LED.
I don’t know what kind of crap LED light bulbs you get in the US but here in Europe to to get a CE mark (required to be able to import them into the EU) a model has to have less than 5% failure rate within (if I remember it correctly) the first year, last 10,000h at least (and have been tested for it, which is quite funny because the test requires having the thing always on for months), turn on within a second, lose (due to burn-in) less than a few percent (forgot the number) brightness within the first 6 months and a bunch of other requirements including stuff like color fidelity.
About a decade ago I actually looked into starting a business importing those things from China and still tody have several samples from back then still working fine (and that’s also why I know the CE mark requirements for LED light bulbs).
More in general I’ve been using LED lamps for even longer and even back in the day when they were more expensive those things paid for themselves in lower power costs, and often do so quite fast (a couple of months) when used to replace incandescents, plus the rate of failures is now pretty low.
(When I first replaced all my lightbulbs with LEDs, way back when they weren’t even as efficient as now, the fall in the electricity bill was very noticeable)
Oh, and the price of those things at the factory has been less than $1 for ages, so stores trying to sell those for more than $2 have huge markups and you’re better of avoiding those places and getting them from hardware stores and similar (or just buy online).
I’m curious about what fixtures your led light bulbs were in.
Old incandescent lights worked great at high heat levels, so a typical boob light fixture that kept the heat in would be fine for an incandescent. Put an LED light in there, and it can still heat up beyond design capacity and might not get enough ventilation and age prematurely.
The only leds that failed for me were inside a fixture meant for incandescent lights. All our open bulbs or specially designed for led fixtures have been going strong for half a decade or more.
Planned obsolescence is a thing here. The LEDs don’t fail, it’s the power circuitry. Unfortunately the fixture theory doesn’t pan out, as fixtures meant for incandescent bulbs need to be able to dissipate much more heat (about 6 times as much). I’ve been using LED bulbs for 7 years in all sorts of different fixtures and have never had even one burn out on me. Why? I don’t really know. Maybe I turn the lights on less often than other people?
I have a 10+ year old LED bulb of corn type, made by a local manufacturer. Works great to this day. It outlived a few generations of store-bought crap like Philips and Emos in the rest of the house.
It’s more likely that the cheap ones are just using a driver board so cheap that it cannot tolerate the heat at all to cut costs, and the bulb dying sooner is just a nice side effect of that.
It’s best to just not buy the cheapest bulbs. I’ve had good luck with Philips.
Stoned me read boob light and was like, ‘oh ya’. But I gotta make sure, we mean like
(image of a dome light cover with a protruding “nipple” at it’s highest point-- making it breast-like in appearance.)
Exactly 😆
I can’t think of another term for them.
Getting rid of them made our place look a lot less like 1997
can confirm, these are boob lights. even my wife uses the term. ripped every one out shortly after we moved in.
My apartment has one of those light fixtures in the living room and it uses a dimmer dial. I once tried to replace the incandescent bulbs with what seemed to be the LED equivalent that could be used with a dimmer, but it just didn’t work right. Lots of flickering. I hope this will convince my landlord to replace the fixture so I can finish changing everything to LED.
For dimmers, you either need smart bulbs that do it themselves or a dimmer switch that you know is guaranteed to work with that bulb, it’s tricky. Also, LED lights that get warmer (change colour tone to a more orange colour) as they dim are far more pleasing than just dimming since they emulate what incandescent bulbs do. Sometimes if the power supply to your unit or building is choppy leds are the first to show it, so hope it’s not that.
Good luck with your landlord, let’s hope they’re a good one.
Thanks for the advice!
There are different types of dimmers to work with different types of bulbs. You may get better results with a summer rated for LEDs
We need more systems where we can just replace the power supplies on these bulbs.
I’ve been in the industry for over a decade and I find it fascinating how much lighting has changed in that time. When LEDs were first available, they were $60+ per bulb. Now you can get multipacks for under $10. Also, CFL bulbs were almost universally hated by everyone (and for good reason) now we no longer sell them. We strictly sell LEDs for regular lighting and we still sell incandescent specialty bulbs. Also, when LEDs first arrived there was a lot of distain for them, especially by the elderly. They wanted their energy wasting incandescent bulbs dammit! It seems the majority of them have come around because they’ve learned that LEDs are better.
That, but also change happens one funeral at a time.
Also it became a political issue as all things should be somehow
I specifically remember trump saying something about bringing back yellow light 😮💨
Yellow street lights are actually very good.
For sure, but if an entire city switches over to LED, that is a lot of electricity saved. Imagine the impact an entire country would have.
No. High pressure sodium lights produce more light for the same wattage. HPS produces 80-140 lumens per watt, LED produces 30-90 (https://ledlightinginfo.com/why-are-street-lights-yellow-and-not-white). They also tend to run slightly warmer which means they are less likely to be covered by snow. That’s why Europe is still using them everywhere.
I’ve heard the LEDs offer much less light pollution, but perhaps that is not unique to technology difference and just the difference in lumens?
Also, I’m surprised there aren’t equal lumen led lights.
Yes. Many of the people that objected also wore MAGA hats. I think the whole idea was that it was better for the environment and you know what that means.
Now you can go into pretty much any thrift store and get a whole box of them for like $5-10.
This is why I don’t support overreach in regulation.
Put a tax on it or something, but a full ban seems excessive. Now that most people understand that LEDs are superior, they are cheaper, and there are more options, most people will make the switch.
No really. A lot of people, even when shown proof, out of simple spite just double down on their position.
When energy saving and early LED bulbs started to be deployed in my country, while the fade out of incandescent bulbs was put in place, we had runs for buying every single incandescent bulb available. The change was not welcome. Even if changing meant real, objective, tangible savings.
People would put in large orders for bulbs, arguing they wanted to “have proper lighting as long has they lived”. Luckily, the stocks quickly ran out and some distributors simply refused to pass the stocks to the market.
A government cutting off a product is not overreach: it’s forcing change that otherwise would not happen, for the better.
A lot of people, even when shown proof, out of simple spite just double down on their position.
But is it enough to really matter? Especially after the market for incandescent shrivels?
I’m sorry, I’m not following your reasoning. Can you elaborate, please?
No really. A lot of people, even when shown proof, out of simple spite just double down on their position.
When energy saving and early LED bulbs started to be deployed in my country, while the fade out of incandescent bulbs was put in place, we had runs for buying every single incandescent bulb available. The change was not welcome. Even if changing meant real, objective, tangible savings.
People would put in large orders for bulbs, arguing they wanted to “have proper lighting as long has they lived”. Luckily, the stocks quickly ran out and some distributors simply refused to pass the stocks to the market.
A government cutting off a product is not overreach: it’s forcing change that otherwise would not happen, for the better.
The most amazing thing to me - I’ve been using leds for 10+ years, and I think I’ve had to replace one or two of them. It is a wonder that prices can come down with demand dwindling so much.
As energy and maintenance go down, the popularity of lighting goes up—so maybe the decrease in sales of replacement bulbs has been offset by an increase in the total number of bulbs in use.
I remember when I was a kid, it seemed like we had to change the light bulbs every other month. Now I’m annoyed because these things last so long I don’t keep any spares and I have to leave my house to buy one when it expires!
Man, I remember as a kid we had a box of bulbs for when inevitably one burnt out each month or so. Now, I have a drawer with a bunch of led bulbs I’ll never use because they don’t burn out!
Seriously, I have whichever ones were remaining in the boxes when we finished populating all our fixtures. Haven’t replaced one ever.
I had to replace an LED bulb a few months ago and I remember being annoyed because they did only lasted five years.
Why not CFLs? I was just thinking the other day about how they vanished.
One problem is that CFL bulbs is that they contain small amounts of mercury (about 4mg per bulb). Because of that, disposing of them responsibly requires going through big hassles rather than just throwing them in the trash. Also, because of that mercury, accidentally breaking one means contamination of the environment around the break.
Flickering - always was a big problem for these things.
Longevity: They were very sensitive to heat, which meant that they loved to burn themselves up in a lot of applications.
Dimming: CFLs were NEVER good at being dimmable.
CFL was just a very poor technology detour on the way to the vastly superior LED lights.
CFLs aren’t good at dimming because they are not dimmable. Trash light bulb tech, don’t get me wrong, but you cannot even dim them to begin with. I’ve tried dimming them back when I didn’t know any better and had one of the fuckers literally explode in front of my very eyes.
Some were produced that were claimed to be dimmable - and I wasted my money on a few and was still unhappy with them. The other problem I forgot to mention earlier was the startup time: the earlier bulbs (and the cheaper ones) wouldn’t just ‘turn on’ when the power was turned on…they took some time to start making light, and the colder it was the longer it took - this is an aspect where LEDs are amazing - maximum brightness within milliseconds of getting energized.
The 3 biggest issues CFLs had were their warm up time, especially in cold weather, the flicker some people are sensitive too, and they contain murcury as all florescent bulbs do. That means it is absolutely necessary to properly dispose of them so mercury doesn’t get into the ground water.
Is there a brand that’s better for LED? I get migraines and the stroking effect of LED bulbs can be a trigger.
LED christmas bulbs particularly bad. It felt like walking into a rave at the Christmas store.
Yeah, many of those christmas lights use pulse width modulation to control brightness and it is very noticeable. I hope that gets changed over for an analog voltage dimmer soon.
Also, cheap ones run directly on AC, so they flicker at 60 Hz (50 in Europe) because the current is only flowing for half the cycle.
How do high-end home LEDs get around this? Do they have a battery that caches the current between cycles?
When my wife and I bought our place, we renovated and made all lights LED. The overheads in the living room and kitchen are quite bright and steady, so they must avoid this somehow.
A bridge rectifier flips the negative current to positive, so instead of a sine wave you get a series of humps. Then a capacitor acts as a battery like you describe to smooth out the dip between humps.
FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER!!!11
There are half wave rectifiers and full wave rectifiers. The former only converts the positive AC to DC and shuts off for the negative half (causing flickering). The latter will convert both positive and negative halves to DC and don’t flicker.
Well, LED lights are half-wave rectifiers that light up, so you wouldn’t add one. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a half wave rectifier referred to as a bridge rectifier.
Ok, I get the gist. Thanks!
There are LEDs with CCD power converter. I got one 10 years ago and tested it with a 240 fps camera, no flicker at all. I will not recommend a brand because it’s been years,but search for “ccd led bulb”.
Also there’s a number called CRI, indicating how well it represents colors. This also may contribute to your headaches. 85 or higher is good, 90 is great. Just don’t trust these numbers on Amazon, the cheapest of cheap crap is marketed as " cri 90+" there.
Or scratch what I just said and find a small store that specializes in lighting and ask the clerk (or email them).
I honestly couldn’t tell you. Its been so long since I purchased LEDs and the ones I bought were from the company I work for. They have worked well for me but I don’t know if any brand is better than another.
I’ve never been disappointed with Philips. However, I have no doubt there are tons of exceptionally good quality products out there from various brands.
I wonder if multi-element bulbs offset the phase of each element so the flickering cancels out.
Regular brand LED bulbs don’t strobe at all, only the very cheap ones from AliExpress and the resellers of Chinese crapware (like Walmart) do. IKEA has some nice and cheap bulbs, for example.
I think the main issue with initial Led bulbs was their color was wrong. Incandescent bulbs emit light at 2700K, a nice warm white. Early LEDs emitted light at more like 5000K or there abouts, which is a really white light. Same with CFLs. Elderly people didn’t like that at all. Honestly it wasn’t just them, lots of people hated them for their too white of light.
Today you can get LEDs that are 2700K and/or are adjustable to what ever color you want.
Any recommendations? I’ve struggle with LED light color temp off and on over the years. I haven’t looked into it in a while though. It always seems like if you want a low color temp it has to be an edison bulb which is really dim.
On a separate note I’ve also had reliability issues with LED bulbs where they will blow out and emit smoke.
Look for colour names like “soft white” or “warm”. The 2700K is a dead give away for the colour you’re looking for.
Also, separate note: check your appliances or fixtures for power spikes. cheaper LEDs are notoriously sensitive to voltage fluctuations
how would you check for that exactly?
Look closely at packaging. If you’re in North America, Phillips is the most common for bulbs. They have packages marked 2700K, 5000K, and 6500K.
The colours are as follows: 2700- soft white (yellow hue), 5000- bright white (white hue, almost no colour), and 6500- day light (blue-ish hue, similar to fluorescent).
If you end up not being able to distinguish… ask an employee and they should be able to help
i meant checking for power spikes lol
Lol im dumb… forgot it was a 2 pt question.
Cheap way is to buy a surge protector/ power strip with surge protector.
Plug in appliances/lights that burn out faster than others. Periodically check surge protector to see if the internal breaker has been tripped.
Fancy way is to buy a multimeter and monitor voltage when large appliances turn on/off. That’s usually the most likely culprit for voltage spikes (as your home grid has to compensate for sudden increase in usage, which in turn causes voltage to fluctuate slightly)
Wrap it up boys, we’ve solved climate change.
Now instead of throwing out a little glass and wire, I get to throw out entire light fixtures with non-replacable LEDs soldered onto cheap PCBs that fail in about the same time as an incandescent light bulb!
I’m all for the energy efficiency of LEDs, but the cheap light fixtures replacing bulbs are a bad trend that needs to die, but they’re easier to wire and last longer on paper, so they’re getting installed everywhere by default.
For what it’s worth I’ve had one of those integrated overhead fixtures in my kitchen for about 6 years. It hasn’t failed yet. The overall shape of the fixture which we like also wouldn’t be possible if the bulbs were replaceable.
The light fixture in my apartment started flickering and not turning on all the way, and it was only a few years old (On a dimmer switch, the dimmer-compatible driver in the fixture died). I couldn’t even fix it myself because it’s hardwired and my landlord wouldn’t be happy with me playing electrician. So I was stuck with no light in that room for weeks until the landlord got it replaced.
Not to mention I couldn’t change the color temperature to match the rest of my lights, which drove me nuts.
They’re not all bad, there are many bad ones though and the light bulb form factor is better for repairability (but there are bad LED bulbs too).
Your sample size of one is useless
Well actually I’ve got one in my laundry room too and that one hasn’t failed either so it’s really a sample size of two. But either way if you don’t like it that’s why I said for what it’s worth.
OK, and? LEDs typically last way longer than 6 years, but it’s still going to be a pain to replace when it does fail.
This has everything to do with implementation and complications from late-stage capitalism and not the actual technology
So don’t buy non-replaceable fixtures?
How is removing incandescent bulbs from the marketplace going to increase the installation of fixtures with non-replaceable components, when such fixtures never used incandescent bulbs in the first place?
It can be difficult. I started asking around about getting recessed lighting installed in my kitchen and they all wanted to install disk lights.
These seem even worse since not only do you have to replace the fixture when it burns out, but you risk having to replace all the fixtures when it varies by color temperature or trim
They should charge you less for using cheaper material, reduce labor costs etc and charge the regular rate (like they fucking die before) to install a recessed fixture.
Overall, capitalism and rampant, irresponsible consumerism is to blame for all these quick fix solutions and lack of repairable devices. There is not one person to blame but ourselves for continuing to buy into this bs (literally)
Im going to replace a two year old light because of this non replaceable light crap.
Is your point we should not be taking steps to decrease electricity usage because this step by itself doesn’t fix the entire problem?
It’s just a joke, we need to do much more
People will complain about climate change than complain about LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT to improve it. Isnt this what people are always saying needs to happen?? That individual action isnt the way but we need legislature to fix everything? What did people think would happen if governments try to fight climate change? That our lives would in no way shape or form be affected?
The answer is everyone else has to fix climate change. Everyone but me
When you have billionares shooting off joy ride rocket ships to space putting out more pollutants than 1000 regular people do in a lifetime per trip, yeah, my recycling everything and switching to oat milk is a pretty futile effort. Individual actions are fine, but there are some things that need the force of law to make a difference.
This line of discussion needs hard numbers.
https://ideas.ted.com/environmental-impact-carbon-emissions-of-space-tourism/
https://gizmodo.com/jeff-bezos-space-joyride-emitted-a-lifetime-s-worth-of-1848196182
Like many things there is a lot of back and forth depending on what numbers you throw into the calculation. Raw carbon from the rocket fuel may be low, but taking in indirect sources raises the totals dramatically. I prefer to look ilat the totality of things since things like flying private jets to the launch site wouldn’t happen if there where no launch to attend.
75 to 1000 tons of CO2?
That’s, what, 5-62 years of an average American lifestyle?
Honestly, that’s not so bad lol
Well, sure, space tourism emissions are gonna be relatively enormous compared to other forms of travel, but I was thinking of stuff like that, versus typical individual emissions, emissions by industry, etc., as % of total global emissions.
Agreed, both are completely required.
You’re only one person, you don’t have to take full responsibility for all of climate change. But you can take responsibility for your slice of climate change
The EU introduced a limitation to how much power electric devices can consume in off or standby mode.
0.5 watt normally, 1 watt if they have a status display and 2-8 watts if they’re connected to a network.
On a yearly basis this saves as much electricity as one of the member states (Romania) used in a year.
My point is that small things add up to huge numbers.
Exactly. From this particular article/policy:
Similarly, it projects that the rules could cut carbon emissions by 222 million metric tons over the next 30 years.
LED bulbs aren’t really even a small thing.
going from a 100W bulb to a 15W bulb, or a 60W bulb to a 2.5W bulb (that’s the actual conversion for the bulbs i’ve actually bought on amazon and am currently using, not hypothetical guesses) across 20-30 bulbs in a single house is a real actual big difference in energy savings.
Makes sense. Nonetheless, reminds me of modern washing machines. Yeah they make sense and save water but it stinks that it’s a compromise and it takes twice as long to wash. With Led bulbs it’s always a say a prayer situation to see if a particular bulb works with a particular dimmer and isn’t a flickering mess.
Led bulbs won’t even work with my garage door opener for some reason. I have to use incandescent or halogen bulbs.
Typically that’s only a problem if you buy non-dimmable bulbs. There are LEDs made specifically for dimmer switches.
Disagree. Many allegedly dimmable bulbs still have flicker issues, lifespan issues, and in my experience even some dimmers that claim to work with Led dimmable bulbs have different success rates with different dimmable leds.
The other thing I think worth mentioning is that for non standard bulb shapes and sizes it is difficult to find high quality name brand LED replacements. You end up with low quality Chinese small brands in these cases. I have had higher costs and more difficulty with these types of bulbs than convential incandescent options. I’m not being luddite here, all for the change, but currently it’s not without some sacrifice. I currently don’t believe I own any remaining incandescent bulbs. Outlawing incandescent options seems premature IMO.
I don’t have a strong opinion on dimmers as I don’t have any in my house. I personally feel that cutting electricity to the bulb to control brightness is a bit outdated: I think smart bulbs are the better technology to par with LED (though I concede they’re still pretty expensive.)
Per the article, nonstandard incandescents are still allowed to be manufactured.
Why are Republicans mad about it?!
When are they aren’t mad? LOL they can die mad for all I care.
Tradition
Something about limiting consumer choice, but everyone purchased LED bulbs to begin with anyways…
I bet they were equally pissed off when Kmart went out of business.
Because they were born.
Because they’re driven entirely by emotion, not rationality. They were told to be angry about it, so they are. Plus, Biden or something.
Because imagining that someone might have a legitimate reason to want a product or service that a regulator might not have thought of is currently a “Republican” trait in the US.
Does anybody use incandescent light bulbs as radiators? Because it’s the only alternative use I can think of.
In the European Union we banned them 10 years ago and people just continued their lives. I wish people were as mad when books get banned, but sadly it’s not the case
Does anybody use incandescent light bulbs as radiators?
Yes. I’ve done it personally a couple times.
Because it’s the only alternative use I can think of.
The thing about alternative uses is that they’re still real even if you can’t think of them.
Broad bans are a bad policy tool in general. Even if you believe in the progressive ideal of expert regulators making broad societal policies, a simple thought experiment shows the problem: What would it take to do the study to accurately determine all the negative effects of a ban? Not guessing, not wishful thinking, but really collecting and analyzing the information.
I wish people were as mad when books get banned, but sadly it’s not the case
When was the last time the US federal government banned a book?
And what is that legitimate reason here?
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