• baseless_discourse@mander.xyz
    0·
    10 months ago

    To make things more confusing, I program, I use linux, and I talk about all of these stuff, but I am not a programmer :p .

    • Jorgelino@lemmy.ml
      0·
      10 months ago

      If you program you’re a programmer. No need to do it professionally to call yourself that.

  • saltesc@lemmy.world
    0·
    10 months ago

    I still don’t understand the Linux memes.

    1. Meme about how hard it is to maintain a Linux machine.
    2. Meme about how Windows is the worst for your machine.
    3. Meme about how gullable new Linux users are to bad advice from experiwnced Linux users.

    It’s like squirting lemon in your eye is the point, and if you don’t do it you’re one of them. Maybe I’m just not bitter enough in life to get it.

    Edit: Oh…

    1. Meme about Linux dominating a niche developer thing that most developers wouldn’t notice, let alone the end user.
    • halcyoncmdr@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      10 months ago

      Rant incoming, so ignore if you’re just here for the memes.

      The Linux community as a whole seems to still be delusional about the real world outside power users, and it hasn’t changed much in the last 25 years from everything I’ve seen. Distros have come and gone, some better than others, but the community as a whole is still living in a fantasy world about the “year of the Linux desktop”. And it’s the reason quite frankly that Linux in it’s current form will never be a daily driver for the average user. Even though it would actually work for probably 30-40% of the population that just uses a web browser without any issue out of the box, as soon as they have an issue, the community would be impossible to find actual useful help from for these users. There are enough toxic Linux users to anyone that doesn’t know the basics. It’s almost as toxic as the League of Legends community with some distros. That leaves a permanent bad taste for all of Linux for the average user that comes across just one of these posts. Not to mention little to no support from places like Geek Squad, which is where the real average users take their systems. Even checking online themselves is heading out of average user territory in the first place.

      The other main issue is that there are productivity mainstays on Windows that don’t have a true Linux version. There are Linux alternatives but they quite frankly aren’t the same, and the average user doesn’t want to have to deal learning something new or with file format differences and not being able to just do what they already do.

      My mother for instance several years ago tried to switch to a Chromebook when she needed a new laptop. She only uses a web browser and Microsoft Word through Google Drive and Gmail. Seems like a Chromebook would be a good fit for an ultra portable and lightweight system with WiFi 90% of the time. She is definitely able to search the internet well and find answers on her own, she is better than the average user due to learning from me breaking things constantly as I grew up. So even her handling of the situation would be more than many users. This was before the stripped down online versions of Office apps existed, so you had Google Docs, and the Linux alternatives like OpenOffice, which did not seamlessly support DOC/DOCX files for users who primarily work with those and need to have those types to send. Even now though the web version of Office is stripped down, some of that stuff just isn’t available without the full software. Google Docs was essentially not compatible with regular Word documents at the time, everything had to be converted to Google’s format and then exported back to a DOC, and constantly having to remember to save files as an alternate format just to send them off to others for further edits or distribution from their systems was a lot of unnecessary work, easily forgotten that just wasted time. Not to mention getting her head around the idea of cloud storage vs local storage if there was no WiFi available for some reason. Google Drive on Windows has a nice visual indicator of backed up stuff, and it’s all stored locally by default as well. It just works for the average user. This is something that Apple does extremely well with their walled garden. They hide the magic and user is never the wiser because it just works for them without getting in the way, you just HAVE to use their system for that experience.

      Those are the issues the average person already knows how to do with Windows and even OSX with the current applications they use daily. Switching to Linux is not just changing the look of the computer and the engine under the hood, there are other usability changes as well. Individually they aren’t a big deal, but adding them all up, the average user just ends up deciding another Windows system is easier or trying OSX instead to go with their iPhone. Unless the user has someone they know personally that is willing to help those users with every tiny issue, without complaint, or they are savvy enough to handle a good internet search for specific error information and find a community willing to be just as helpful, avoiding the toxic users, they’re just going to decide it’s bad generally and stop using it, probably forever.

      Linux must be objectively better than Windows in major ways to get the average person to jump ship and learn something new, dealing with all the small issues and differences they’ll come across.

      • ralakus@lemmy.world
        0·
        10 months ago

        I think the main issue is too much fragmentation within Linux. There’s the whole choosing the distro, choosing a desktop environment (or window manager), figuring out how to use the packages for your distro, etc. Then you have issues like some software being too outdated for your distro or not packaged at all so you look into Flatpak but it’s a whole other system on your computer to have to keep track of and maintain or the software you need is not there either so you have to compile from source. There also comes the issue of getting help when something breaks. There’s hundreds of different little bits in every single distro that makes it a pain in the ass to fix sometimes unless you’re using one of the few large distros where the guides actually work.

        I really don’t think Linux will become truly mainstream for the every day user until there is a proper “default” experience like what Windows and MacOS provide. Sure some people will say use this distro and this desktop environment and it’d just work but that forces the common person to trust the other person online and that common person has to make a choice. If their first experience on Linux is bad, they’ll just throw it off altogether and go back to Windows or MacOS. Everyone has a different first experience with Linux.

        I’m not saying strip Linux of all configurability. I’m saying there needs to be a focus on a standard Linux distro with a standardized desktop environment and standardized overall user experience. If the user wants to change any of it, they’re free to do so like anyone can with Linux right now. Also, the user should be able to manage the system entirely through a simple GUI. If the user has to for any reason go into a terminal, Linux has failed at being usable by the common person.

        I say this as a person who uses Arch (btw) on my laptops and desktop and Debian 12 and Proxmox 8 for my servers and RHEL 8 at work. I really love Linux but I just can’t in good faith recommend it to a person who wants to just use their damn computer unless they’re willing to put up with the massive fragmentation and lack of support in the community.

        Tl;dr Linux doesn’t have a “default” experience like Windows or MacOS so a common user will struggle to even get started or look for help/advice

      • cm0002@lemmy.world
        0·
        10 months ago

        The various Linux communities need to be careful what they wish for IMO, would it be great for market share to get onboard with Linux? Absolutely.

        But like you said, things will have to be dumbed down and hidden extensively.

        At the same time whenever a piece of Linux software or distro takes ANY step whatsoever in this direction, the backlash from the community can get rather large. They’re trying to have their cake and eat it too.

        IMO Linux is great the way it is, low market share and all, and we all know what happens when something starts catching on with the general public…

    • Omgarm@lemmy.world
      0·
      10 months ago

      I’ve used Ubuntu for a few minutes for work and realized I was too lazy to learn a lot of stuff. All my coworkers used the console and I just wanted to use the UI…

      • nul9o9@lemmy.world
        0·
        10 months ago

        Kde plasma does a good job at giving you gui options for console tasks.

        System updates and software installs are done in their discover app i believe.

      • halcyoncmdr@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        10 months ago

        Ubuntu is probably one of the easiest for the average user to jump into coming from Windows. It is designed around the GUI and to be close to a drop in replacement much more than many other distros. Linux needs to be usable 100% without the console or it will never be a true competitor for Windows. The average user sees a terminal and had no idea what to do, or what to stay away from. They are 100% reliant on the OS to prevent them from breaking things. Look at all the issues users had with learning to approve system changes via basic security like UAC prompts that just need approval, not even their password, compared to something like sudo.

        Granted a big part of that was lazy developers assuming and using admin privileges they didn’t actually need for their programs, because the proper way to do things was a bit harder. Something Microsoft had been telling developers for over a decade they needed to stop doing. So many applications prompted every time they were used, because of shitty applications. As soon as a basic security screen was added, those applications became annoying for the end user, and Windows got the blame from the average user because of shitty devs and Microsoft’s complete lack of being able to explain things to non-power users.

        • Crank_it@lemmy.world
          0·
          10 months ago

          I switched from Windows to Ubuntu years ago after getting frustrated with Windows.

          It took some getting used to, but I love it now!

          I’m not a programmer or especially tech savvy, but I’m old enough to have used DOS when that was occasionally necessary in Windows.

          I recommend Ubuntu to anyone looking for a Windows alternative.

    • Donebrach@lemmy.world
      0·
      10 months ago

      Agreed

      Seems 99% of posts on Lemmy, regardless of content, will have some goblin schilling Linux. I don’t have anything against Linux but I will never adopt it, mostly because WHY? What the fuck is the benefit of Linux?

      • nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
        0·
        10 months ago

        There are some benefits in some circumstances, but a lot of people who use linux do so not because of any tangible benefit, but because they support open source, and don’t like the idea of one (arguably a couple) big corporation having a monopoly of that magnitude and deciding alone the way tech should evolve.

        Speaking for myself, I’m from a developing country, and I mostly use dated tech, some of which don’t even support windows anymore, and it gives me the possibility of extending the lifespan of my stuff. This is the main tangible benefit for me.

    • Vilian@lemmy.ca
      0·
      10 months ago

      to be fair the 3 first points only apply to arch, the same people to say “i use arch btw” so you know they also hate themselfs

      edit: 50% of devs use linux so the 4th point isn’t that true

      • OpenStars@startrek.websiteEnglish
        0·
        10 months ago

        I don’t use Arch, but I still think that Windows is, if not the absolute worst for your machine, then it at least ranks highly in that category:-).

      • black0ut@pawb.social
        0·
        10 months ago

        Obligatory “I use Arch, btw” comment. I’ve been using Arch for years and, honestly, it isn’t that much of a pain. It mostly works with the defaults, installation is really easy now with archinstall, and there’s a ton of software ready to install from the repos or the AUR. Besides, the arch wiki is amazing and has solutions for many of the problems you’ll ever have.

  • Samsy@lemmy.ml
    0·
    10 months ago

    Political science? Hmm, switch to all communities and sort for new. Have fun.

    • meep_launcher@lemm.eeOP
      0·
      10 months ago

      Haha, the appeal of political science to me is less about arguing with strangers about the news and more talking about broader philosophies and theories and then applying them to what we are seeing in the world. I feel like I can have a more nuanced conversation about the prisoner’s dilemma with regards to x topic, or applying philosophies like American Pragmatism to solving problems.

      Talking about the news without using some of the tools political scientists use has so many emotional trip wires that it can feel like I’m just keeping up with the Kardashians. That said sometimes I just can’t help but keep up with the Kardashians.

      • caveman@lemmy.ml
        0·
        10 months ago

        Recently the only news about politics I don’t find disgusting is done by political scientists. You you recommend a book on the topic for beginners?

        • dodgy_bagel@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          0·
          10 months ago

          A book about current events or a book about the study of politics? OP indicated they were political theory focused, so a lot of the theory was written by old dead guys; not exactly news about current events.

            • dodgy_bagel@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              0·
              10 months ago

              Plato has basically nothing to do with modern politics.

              You’re going to laugh, but I’m absolutely serious here: if your objective is to understand modern politics, I would start with The Prince and the Communist Manifesto.

              Both of these are short, written by extremely influential figures, written for non-academic audiences, and have some amount of relevancy to current political operations. They absolutely do not explain modern politics, but they are important foundational texts. Spend 20 hours on the manifesto; 2 hours to read and 18 hours of commentary and related topics. Avoid going deeper into the communist rabbit holes. stop there. Spend 30 hours on the prince; look for college level lectures. You can spend more than 30 if you like, but don’t go for the self help guru dipshits, obviously.

              Just keep in mind the target audences and the potential bias the two authors bring to the table.

              After those two, I want you to read On Liberty and read up on John Locke’s social contract theory. Those four works will get you a lot of milage.

              • caveman@lemmy.ml
                0·
                10 months ago

                I’ve read a good part of Communist manifesto and found it interesting. The fascist Manifesto is very similar to it. I found very weird that communists are against fascists, given that their manifestos are so similar.

        • meep_launcher@lemm.eeOP
          0·
          10 months ago

          Depends on what you’re wanting to focus on, but a great start would be Rules for Rulers by Arnold Meltsner, Freakonomics by Levitt & Dubner, CIA: legacy of Ashes by Tim Weiner, confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins are some that I started early.

          CGP Grey did a great job synthesizing Rules for Rulers on YouTube as well.

          Also a big think video Why Sociopaths Rise to Power

          Also Veritasium has a great video on game theory

          Hope that helps!

        • meep_launcher@lemm.eeOP
          0·
          10 months ago

          Yep, it’s a thing!

          “You can philosophize over how many fairies fit on a toadstool all day, but if it won’t help anything, what’s the point?”

          If you’re talking politics, you need to take a step back and ask how useful your questions are. It may be tempting to try solving a conflict that has a long history by finding out “who started it”, but if the answer would yield no progress in the peace process, it would be a better use of time and energy to focus on other discussions.

          I’ve used it as an economic philosophy as well. Instead of looking at capitalism and socialism as ideologies to guide thought, look at them as tools to an end. Identify your goals for society (more educated populace, lower infant mortality, greater freedom of the press, etc.) and then look at what different perspectives bring for solutions. Sometimes you may find letting a free market take it’s course is an answer. Sometimes you may find deep regulation or nationalization is the answer.

          When this philosophy is applied to something more personal like religion, it would ask “is the religion that you are in helping you or hindering you?” If someone’s religion gives them immense guilt and depression, it would be worth it to consider something else. If an alcoholic finds peace in a Mormon Temple, then it might just be what they need. It’s a pretty chill philosophy when it comes to religion.

          • navigatron@beehaw.org
            0·
            10 months ago

            Thank you, that’s an excellent read! This reminds me of the “expected value of perfect information” - sometimes it is worthwhile to answer a question, and sometimes it isn’t. Every once in a while I find myself in an engineering call discussing a minor problem, and I run the numbers to see if the change we are discussing is even worth talking about. One time the combined salaries of the people on the call had already outpaced the cost savings of the change over the next 10 years. We quickly stopped that discussion lol

    • hydroptic@sopuli.xyz
      0·
      10 months ago

      That’s how I browse (all & scaled or all & new) and I’m a CS nerd. To make the experience less annoying I’ve blocked a bunch of communities mainly because they’re not interesting to me (there’s a lot of anime and/or porn communities, fucking hell), but it’s generally a nice experience – I can run into all kinds of things that I hadn’t heard of before. I haven’t even gotten traumatized yet! Shame the only way to filter the feed is to block communities, but eh

      • pete_the_cat@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        10 months ago

        I’m gonna have to check this out because I just mentioned this as an idea for Lemmy the other day. The amount of posts I see about the same thing in different communities is too damn high.

  • VerbFlow@lemmy.world
    0·
    10 months ago

    I know a little bit about programming, but I think that it’s crucial to learn more, not just because of how messed up social media sites are, but because you can do so much cool stuff!

  • JokklMaster@lemmy.world
    0·
    10 months ago

    Me: needing to become a programmer because the professor for my graduate stats class has a hard on for R…