Everyone just keeps acting like its normal
That’s a common trope in dystopian settings.
The youngest people in the society don’t understand that anything is even wrong. The rich folks have a vested interest in people being more afraid of foreigners and domestic terrorists than any government malfeasance. And the working class is so occupied with simple survival that they see no real opportunity to revolt… until something really falls off the rails, at which point the military moves in to suppress dissent with maximum bloodshed.
In those dystopia settings however, they never seem to have all the literature describing dystopia. We do here
Right now, in the mostly-free-press parts of the world, I now think that dystopian scifi no longer serves as a warning of what not to do but instead acts as a numbing agent to increased oppression.
This is going to sound very Maoist or whatever but we need more utopian scifi like Star Trek TNG. We need utopian visions imagined for us so we have something to work towards.
It was so refreshing to watch the Chinese TV show for Three-Body where the world was at peace with each other and trying to solve this bizarre global mystery. Sure, the Chinese government was painted as much more competent than American & European governments but Hollywood does the same thing with the US government too.
Eh, it depends on the author. I’ve seen a lot of modern Post-Apocalypse/Cyberpunk stuff make comedic quasi-self-references by way of media-within-the-media (A piece of modern literature in the Fallout setting describing a “dystopian” world in the self-proclaimed utopian Vaults, for instance).
But the point of the media-within-the-media is often to illustrate how we fixate on the drama of dystopia without acknowledging the banality of social evils.
1984 literally has a manifesto describing what’s happening.
In fact, the brainwashing of the kids in 1984 to report on their parents having / reading / discussing “controversial media” is a major element of the dystopia. Those media are not explicitly named, but I don’t think they have to be.
I feel like this describes pretty much every western society since we moved beyond tribalism.
I don’t think tribalism was the apex of greatness people seem to think it was.
I’m too broke to worry about much more then working enough to feed myself and afford my shitty apartment for another month.
So what your saying is the system is working as intended.
Oh well, at least frogurt is still relatively cheap.
The frogurt is capitalist
That’s bad.
It also comes in plant-based varieties!
That’s worse.
The plants contain potassium benzoate!
reading 1984 as a kid: Wow how could anyone live in England?
understanding the world a bit more as an adult: The overwhelming majority of people just live where they were born and accept whatever good or bad things come along. Making positive changes to our system is a slow process, not unlike planting trees so that future people can enjoy the shade.
me now: Wow how could anyone live in England?
Can’t even plant a tree because someone “owns” the land.
The overwhelming majority of people just live where they were born and accept whatever good or bad things come along.
This!! I’ve been trying to tell people this for so long but no one every listens. Most people especially Americans are the boiling frog. They choose to live in blissful ignorance because it’s easier than actually fixing the problem, and now the rest of us who can actually acknowledge what’s going on have to suffer
LOL… how could anyone live in a country with free healthcare, subsidized higher ed, public transit that covers the vast majority of the population, practically zero gun battles daily… oof, yeah, how could anyone?
pfft
Imagine not having the freedom to have your daily gun battle!
Yes, this system absolute madness only equaled by the madness of the mass tolerance of it.
And NOT the fun weekend bender kind of madness I haven’t had time for in years due to capitalist exploitation.
Yeah. Your free time is very limited by the fact you live under capitalism and not magic fairy dust.
I mean, compared to all the other economic systems, capitalism provides more leisure time. But compared to magical fantasy circumstances, capitalism’s a drag.
Communism limits free time, too. You still have to work under that system. And pay bills. You have to pay for childcare, dental work, travel, food, housing, and just about everything else. Except medicine. But you have to wait for that, and have no choice in who you see.
Depending entirely on the form of communism. Right now the worlds richest 400 have a combined wealth amounting near 7 trillion. In a communist society world wide we could distribute that wealth globally to install water infrastructure, food infrastructure, vaccinate everyone and still have change in the bank to support other large projects.
And this is speaking purely finance. Here in the UK we have more than enough empty home to house all of our homeless.
The amount we work to the resources produced are wildly high, we could work a lot less if not for the bosses ever demanding more.
Well, I am referring to actual communism, not the fantasy kind.
Wealth distribution is not equal under communism. Most is owned by the state, the privileged class still exists. The underprivileged class also exists.
Communism tends to be inefficient and less productive than capitalism, so a lot less is produced. This is demonstrated time and again. People just don’t have a personal motivation to increases production for the state. Distribution is also inefficient. Historically it leads to hunger because central planning is less effective than a decentralized system where individuals are able to make decisions.
So while I agree that the current level of wealth inequality is not good, communism is certainly not the solution. All it does is change where the lines of inequality are drawn. It usually kills a few million people for no good reason, too.
Given that we now have a track record of communism, it’s hard to imagine why anyone would choose it.
well i say if we can go from feudalism to mercantilism to capitalism then why not capitalism to socialism to communism? its again distributing power from the top to the lower status classes, we saw similar in feudalism to mercantilism.
Wealth distribution is not equal under communism. Most is owned by the state, the privileged class still exists. The underprivileged class also exists.
- wealth distribution should be equal under communism, wealth not being equal means we must do better. we don’t look at corrupt corporations and think “to bad its fucked best not make any more”
- in socialism most would be own a distributed by the state. communism is worker lead.
- in socialism the unprivileged class gets lifted through the transitional period. class distinctions are to be removed through the transitional period leading to a classless communist society.
Communism tends to be inefficient and less productive than capitalism, so a lot less is produced. This is demonstrated time and again. People just don’t have a personal motivation to increases production for the state. Distribution is also inefficient. Historically it leads to hunger because central planning is less effective than a decentralized system where individuals are able to make decisions.
- i cant argue communism and its efficiency as i have yet to see it but i am sure socialism can be made to be more efficient. being from the UK and having the carcass of what was once our publicly owned NHS i know that after WW2 under a Labour government we saw the NHS rise from nothing within 3 years, Labour at the time were socialist. the NHS was revolutionary at the time. we also had a massive housing boom.
So while I agree that the current level of wealth inequality is not good, communism is certainly not the solution. All it does is change where the lines of inequality are drawn. It usually kills a few million people for no good reason, too. so your a reformist?
Are you familiar with twentieth century Chinese or Soviet history? If you are impressed by communism, you really should read up on what happened in nations that implemented it, or attempted to implement it, in the last hundred years.
Communism doesn’t redistribute power to the lower classes. It redistributes power to the Communist Party members - usually an inner circle. The people who are running the massive government that is required to operate a nation with all the central planning that communism requires. The new privileged class becomes the top technocrats and their families.
It’s impossible for wealth distribution to be equal. Wealth is not just money, it is also assets. Say you strip all the assets away from people - let’s say housing - and redistribute it. OK - Now everyone has a house. But all houses are not created equal. Some houses are nicer than others. Some locations are nicer than others. Everyone will want to move into the nicest house in the nicest city, but obviously they can’t all fit. So what do you do? Someone has to work on the farm and grow wheat. How do you force people to work on a collective farm? What about people who don’t want to work? Do they get the same housing as the workers who contribute to society? Even if you house everyone, including providing free housing for those who won’t pay, what about the people who don’t WANT to live in a house? Do you force them to live in a detention center? What about their kids? They keep having more kids… Do you forcibly sterilize them, or do you put their kids into an orphanage, hoping that the state can do a better job raising workers than their lazy parents? And then, what about the homeless? The people who actually prefer living outside? Obviously if they refuse to live in their house, they have fewer assets than others. Now your society isn’t equal anymore, it’s just made some changes in who have wealth.
Yes, socialism can be made more efficient. The trick to it is my introducing a mix of capitalism so you have a mixed market economy. Like in China.
Am I a reformist? It depends on what you want to reform, and what kind of reform you’re talking about. I’d like to see more direct democracy, which I believe can be achieved in my home country through reforms. But in some other countries, it can only be achieved via revolution. For economic systems, a mix of capitalism and socialism seems to be the best thing we’ve found so far. No doubt a better economic system will be discovered someday. But it is not communism. Communism is too extreme. It’s not a good system, and it has failed everywhere it’s been tried.
I think this vision usually comes to be when people aren’t aware of how much worse other people have it, or how much worse was in the past.
Sure nowdays there are a lot of terrible things happening, but we have the best tools ever to fix them.
The world needs a bit more of optimism, the only way we can start fixing our problems is acting like we can.
How do you know how bad many of the people have it here? Also, in general, I reject the premise of your comment.
Just because people may be suffering more elsewhere, doesn’t mean we don’t have a right to be frustrated by our current systems. This is especially true in a society that allows absurdities like billionaires to exist.
Potential convicted felon president with many active indictments looking to give himself blanket immunity for all crime and appointing himself dictator president for life. All while every year is the hottest year on record, there isn’t enough housing, actually nazis feel safe to actively demonstrate in public, a million less Americans are alive post COVID and all of the world’s wealth is split between 7 people and all the world’s companies owned by 4 parent companies…
What the fuck are you talking about dystopian?
Those in that million category were probably the lucky ones, the afterlife’s probably pretty dope.
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It’s really not. At least no more than it has been in the past
The world looks like a horrible place, barely hanging on by a thread, until you step outside and see that society and the people in it are generally pretty chill.
Of course, that said, I don’t live in the states. Everything could be literally on fire there for all I know.
It’s a pleasant surprise every time I visit how chill the US is, you see so much news and fear mongering but it’s super friendly and nice everywhere I go.
Yeah standard of living overall is factually better than at any other point in the last few hundred years.
Medicine alone has made getting to or living past your mid-30’s far less hard or filled with pain - even for those in poverty.
And hell I’d argue that if the original commenter really believes it’s a dystopian shit-show…it’s crystal clear how to make your own lot better.
Yeah standard of living overall is factually better than at any other point in the last few hundred years.
Really depends on who you are and where you live. I’m watching my Houston ISD getting torn apart before my eyes. Police were running around UH campus clubbing students and dragging them into squad cars just a few weeks ago. The derecho that blew through downtown knocked out 5-10% of the windows in various buildings and killed the power for a few days. Electricity costs have doubled in the last ten years, while summer heat is up a sold five degrees Fahrenheit on average.
Is my standard of living better than it was for someone living in the city a generation ago? Doesn’t look like it. But hey, we’ve got weird new AI and the stock market is very up. Is it better than someone living in Houston in 1824? Yeah… I guess? But so much of that seems to hinge on having electricity and running water. And the more pipes keep bursting and lines keep getting knocked down, the less reliable these services seem.
Not to forget, how we now “only” work 40h (for most people), but productivity went up and a lot of down times and social interaction in the past, were replaced by workload grind in a now stressful office environments.
we now “only” work 40h
That’s a deceptive estimate, as the number of employment hours worked across the household has jumped considerably higher. Two income families are the norm while children in low income households are routinely press-ganged into service - either as additional hires or as unpaid support for the primary worker (aiding parents as field workers while the field overseer turns a blind eye, for instance).
productivity went up and a lot of down times and social interaction in the past, were replaced by workload grind in a now stressful office environments.
Longer commutes, fewer public spaces and services, more haphazard schedules (more and more people working traditional “weekend” periods, particularly in retail, service, and transportation sectors), and more unreliable gig work. Absolutely.
People in the ukraine are like: man this is great, imagine living in the 30’s
Yeah, there are tons of things to make better and improve on, but things could be a lot freaking worse. (For more people, anyway, for too many people it’s already terrible currently, e.g. Gaza, Ukraine, Sudan, Yemen, Haiti … )
Except now there’s nukes, end stage capitalism, and climate change… Sure up until like 100 years ago shit sucked hard for just about everyone, but at least there was no way they could literally end all life on earth
No. I’m familiar with history. It is normal.
I’ve read history. I know what actual dystopian nightmares look like. We’re not in one.
“Things can always get worse” is a pretty shit justification to say things aren’t bad now.
Things are NOT bad now.
No-one is saying that all is fine. Yes, there are loads of big issues right now, but we’re still living better and safer than 99% of all the humans that have ever lived. We are not living Ina dystopian world.
- “We are not living in a dystopian nightmare”
- ”The fact that things can always get worse justifies a lack of effort to make things better”
- ”All is fine”
These are three different statements. Not the same thinfs.
Can we fucking stop with the sloppy quoting? Nobody in this thread is responding to what anybody else is actually saying.
History does not only repeat, and simply looking at the past can make you blind to the novel ways society has transformed. For example, oppression has been a constant throughout history, but it never has been as faceless as it is today. Lords and kings have been replaced by corporations and agencies operating across borders, in ways and with purposes that I don’t think anyone who’s not actually involved with can claim they fully understand.
You really think oppression is more faceless now than before the existence of cameras? What was the odds that a medieval peasant knew what the King looked like? Or that a slave in Egypt knew the face of the Pharaoh?
Someone in Gaza would disagree right now.
Yeah, and Jews in WWII would disagree with you.
It’s always easy to find a very specific group of people that are having a horrible time, that doesn’t mean that on average, humans live better and safer than in the entire history of humanity. Sure, the last 10 years saw a bit of a down turn, but thing are still way better than, say, 40 years ago.
I guess it’s hard to remember how really hard life could be
Idk man it’s really not a competition. AI powered automated genocide and industrialized genocide are both horrible in their own way and to me absolutely dystopian nightmares. Same way how China uses AI to track every aspect of their citizens lives + also genocide.
The Uyghurs are absolutely living in a dystopian nightmare. China uses technology to track their citizens. You can’t blame it on AI, although AI has improved their technology. Their tracking predates AI. Also our current “AI” is just self-improving algorithms, not true AI.
That’s just authoritarian abuse. That’s the same kind of horror humans have been facing throughout history.
To me, a “nightmare” is artificial life extension for the purpose of torturing people, and non-invasive mind control and neural reprogramming from a distance.
Don’t get me wrong we’re going there. We’re not going to be able to turn back from that course. The nightmare stage is when the ability to off oneself is gone, because the machines or other people own your body at a cellular level, and it can detect and paralyze you when you’re acting against their interests.
On average, I think humanity’s experience will rise. For the majority things will get better.
But for some unlucky ones (and unfortunately, because it will soon be as easy for a kid to do as pulling the wings off a fly, eventually there will be countless trillions of those people), all the usual stops and limits to suffering will ne raised only to usher in a continual flow of pain beyond anything they can imagine, for orders of magnitude beyond their normal lifespan.
But even if that only happens to one person, that is an indescribable nightmare.
My sincere hope is that in the long run, during the war for control of the galaxy, the resources necessary to maintain these eternal torture cloud instances will be reallocated to the war effort.
That’s the only eventual escape I see for those people, now that I know the depth of sadism that exists in the world.
I think we’re headed for a nightmare, but we’re not there yet.
Can you explain why 40 years ago was worse, as a whole?
I look at the 80’s and I see affordable housing, the fall of the Berlin wall, the birth of the internet, and a ton of economic upturn for the US (including way higher wages of you adjust for inflation.)
This decade is popularly referred to as the “decade of decadence.”
Sure, the last 10 years saw a bit of a down turn, but thing are still way better than, say, 40 years ago.
What’s funny is if you don’t include the improvements in China which skew the average then the rest of the world has gotten noticeably worse than it was forty years ago.
Even a poor person in any EU country lives much better than any king a mere 200 years ago. Healthcare, painkillers, food safety, clean water, indoor plumbing, freedom of religion and expression, and in the palm of your hand all the knowledge, pr0n and memes you heart desires. Probably a few items less on that list in freedom land, but still not that bad.
They eat cleaner food and have more amenities than a King, but they certainly don’t live better. The point of the article is that the rising tide is floating a few boats wayyyy higher than the rest, and the overall growth does not justify the fact that people still die of hunger, get evicted while working multiple jobs, fall ill and are saddled by medical dept for life (US only), and shit like that.
I don’t think anyone dies of hunger in the developed world, even the US. No evictions in many EU countries either, even if you don’t have a job at all you get unemployment that is high enough for a reasonable apartment.
And so we go, on with our lives
We know the truth but prefer lies
Lies are simple, simple is bliss
Why go against tradition when we can
Admit defeat, live in decline
Be the victim of our own design
The status quo, built on suspect
Why would anyone stick out their neck?Fellow members
Club “We’ve got ours”
I’d like to introduce you to our host
He’s got his and I’ve got mine
Meet the declineNOFX - The Decline
One of my favorite songs of all time. I revisit it once a year or so but have to be careful because as much as I love it, it can put me in a dark place. I’ve urged a lot of friends to give it a listen while paying attention to the lyrics but that seems to be quite a commitment for most people 😂
Just in case, this year is your last chance to see them live. Thought you might want to know that 😊
Yea I just saw that in my feed. I’ve never seen them live (though I hear they suck live 😜) so I should def try.
I missed them my whole life, until this year. Crossed half the country. It was amazing.
Like as in you traveled across the country to see them? If so, that sounds fun. I’ve driven across 3-4 times (assuming you mean the US) and it’s been a lot of fun each time.
It would be really great to see them for me this time since they are playing with the Descendants (the two were my introduction into punk music)!
Like as in you traveled across the country to see them?
Yes! Although in a smaller country than the USA, with high speed trains 😇
they are playing with the Descendants
Oh cool!
This song, by a comedian, is a showcase of the hopeless, fucked up, irredeemable, state of humanity.
These 2 particular lines brings a tidal wave of emotions:
20 thousand years of this, seven more to go
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all (Actually, the whole song, the whole album gets me)
That Funny Feeling ~ Bo Burnham
Stunning 8K-resolution meditation app. In honor of the revolution, it’s half off at the GAP. Deadpool’s self-awareness, loving parents, harmless fun. The backlash to the backlash to the thing that’s just begun.
There it is again, that funny feeling That funny feeling There it is again, that funny feeling That funny feeling
The surgeon generals’ pop-up shop, Robert Iger’s face. Discount Etsy agitprop, Bugles’ take on race. Female Colonel Sanders, easy answers, civil war. The whole world at your fingertips, the ocean at your door.
Live-action Lion King, the Pepsi Halftime Show. 20 thousand years of this, seven more to go. Carpool Karaoke, Steve Aoki, Logan Paul. A gift shop at the gun range, a mass shooting at the mall.
There it is again, that funny feeling That funny feeling There it is again, that funny feeling That funny feeling
Reading Pornhub’s terms of service, going for a drive. And obeying all the traffic laws in Grand Theft Auto five. Full agoraphobic, losing focus, cover blown. A book on getting better hand-delivered by a drone.
Total disassociation, fully out your mind. Googling “derealization”, hating what you find. That unapparent summer air in early fall. The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all.
There it is again, that funny feeling That funny feeling There it is again, that funny feeling That funny feeling
Hey, what can you say? We were overdue But it’ll be over soon, you wait Hey, what can you say? We were overdue But it’ll be over soon, just wait, ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da-da-da-da
About a year after it came out, I was singing along with it during a depressive episode and realized ‘seven’ wasn’t accurate anymore. It freaked me out, but I realized that part of the nature of the song is the impending doom, and I have to change the lyrics when I get to that part.
…Four more to go.
Don’t forget to factor in the time between him writing, recording, and releasing it.
This the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.
T.S. Eliot - The Hollow Men
Literally gives me anxiety to the point I need meds
do we tough?
maybe get off the internet and enjoy your life a bit.
Yes we do live in a dystopian nightmare. It’s just that most people posting here, including myself, live a fucking privileged life, where we don’t have to share the same worries that about 80% of the world population have, including a large part of even the US population nowadays.
We (the privileged people) are the baddies from all those dystopian stories.
Doesn’t help when an over privileged brat with full access to devices and the internet then just posts weak ass generalist complaints like this.
Movements make a difference by targeting problems with specific details. Not just whining about them with general, diluted, unintelligible babble designed around some indescript, unnecessarily abstract problem forever just out of grasp.
This was a dog whistle for indifference and hopelessness. This was bait and it does fuck all to do with fixing any real problems.
We do. I’ve got friends who are harassed because of who they are, or what they look like. I’ve had friends almost die because of police kneeling their neck because he defended family from an abuser, friends who’ve been threatened and nearly attacked by homophobes and transphobes, I’ve experienced cops do everything they can to escalate situations to justify violence.
So yeah we really do live in a dystopian era where basic rights and securities are not afforded to the people who need it most.
As opposed to the past where black people where treated as livestock?
Whatever bad thing is going in your life, it used to be worse.
Just because things were worse in the past and marginally better now doesn’t detract from the shittiness of today. And there are quite a few people trying to reimplement the policies of that time period.
Things being worse before is not justification for not progressing to something better.
Things being worse before is not justification for not progressing to something better.
how can things be worse before if we didn’t progress? how can you say the future will not be better?
All the time
Thats part of the dystopia
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No. Because if you look at numbers, compared with various benchmarks in the past, many things have gotten better or worse.
Maybe they would have been scared of the society in the past.
Depending on where you stand in a socio economic racial stance, yes they would have a right to be afraid of the society at almost any time before now and even now. Amazingly a lot of people in this situation would not go compare things generally like this but explicitly tell you where things are problematic. Everything from micro aggression to abuse of power in great detail.
And then you have the people who may have always been privileged but occasionally something bad happens to them. So they will incur a lasting trauma to something happening to them and decide nothing good ever happens to them and would discount anything good.
And then you have the do good doomer gloomer. They will surf the internet for material to strengthen their resolution and decide every video where there’s questionable material hasn’t been staged and is the absolute truth. They’ve decided the world is ending. They claim what they are doing is for the better. ‘Open your eyes sheeple’ . But they do absolutely nothing but post general bait like the OP did just to get a reaction.
But then you have the 15yr old gamers who have all the technology and privilege at their hands and have no gauge to measure suffering. So they decide the moment someone merely doesn’t clap for something they just posted and compare it to being oppressed/holocaust/dystopian nightmare. And of course you can’t possibly know the exact detail they are talking about they would never give it up. You can’t possibly understand their ‘suffering’.