For all the newcomers that aren’t aware, I just stumbled upon this insane drama. Apparently lemmy.ml is the result of a reddit sub ban of a bunch of pro-china bots who vigorously defend the Chinese government, and the two top admins are also the top devs of the Lemmy source software. Pretty terrible stuff!

The linked thread is full of their insane ramblings and denialism

Edit: I seem to have been blocked from commenting, all my replies are timing out now. But I wanted to say that I don’t intend to make this post as an “anti-lemmy” thing, I think the truth should burn brightly in the sunlight. We should try to continue to grow Lemmy (especially since we’re the largest reddit clone) while calling out their propaganda and hidden motive.

Edit2: turns out I can comment, I just can’t reply to kbin user comments from my instance. Just spins indefinitely.

  • Blamemeta@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    1 year ago

    My first instinct was ignore your giant ass comment, because it’s probably full of crazy.

    Then I thought “You know what, it’s Lemmy. Fresh start, and people seem to be more genuine here. Let’s be kind and actually properly read and reply.”

    So I read your comment, and my first instinct was right. Jesus fuck mate, go touch grass. Go get laid. Get some help. Do something, besides hanging out in whatever insane echo chamber you’re in, because that’s not helping you. That giant comment of yours is not normal, not in size, and not in content.

    Also, you’re basically repeating yourself over and over again, rewording the same few sentences in different ways, and padding the length like a highschooler with a 3 page essay to write.

    • BelieveRevolt@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      ”Why are Nazis bad?”

      ”Here’s a detailed response.”

      ”Wow, I’m not reading that, it’s too long and must be crazy.”

      I wonder how Nazis managed to worm their way into liberal spaces?

    • Laticauda@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Oh I’m sorry, I forgot people like you only understand buzzwords and article titles. I didn’t consider dumbing down my response detailing the intricacies of a complex political idiology that has a long and complicated history, but I guess I just overestimated your intelligence. My bad!

      • Blamemeta@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        @BelieveRevolt You too, get in here, I ain’t writing this much for one person to look at.

        Okay, you’re repeating yourself a lot in that comment, but I’ll go paragraph by paragraph, and reply individually. I have nothing better to do until my next meeting anyways.

        Oh let me count the ways.

        For one, they lie. They lie, lie, lie. Nazi’s lie more naturally than they breath. What they want more than anything is a platform to spread those lies to people who are vulnerable to those lies. Hitler didn’t seize power, he was elected into it.

        Cool, I don’t see how lying makes Nazis unique, but sure. Also not seeing how that would let them win.

        They want a platform, any platform, for mainly 2 reasons, neither of which are for the sake of logical debate or upholding freedom of speech:

        1. to spread their propaganda, which again is full of manipulative lies that feed on pre-existing biases. People don’t become radicalized from nothing, they’re fed a specific narrative that leads them down a road of reasoning that feels, to those people, like it makes sense, until they’re in too deep to be willing to consider that they’re wrong.
        1. to UNIFY disparate groups that share their views or are at least willing to brush elbows with the nazi party to achieve their ends. This unification of disparate groups can lend them a lot more strength and influence than they’d otherwise have if they were kept separate. They want a platform that let’s them, essentially, stand up on stage with a microphone going “alright, hands up if you share some of these views and are willing to go along with the rest as long as you get what you want in the end”. Now they won’t state the worst of their views outright, they’ll just couch them in nicer terms, but people who share them will recognize them. And even those who don’t agree with the extreme versions of those views are just targets ripe for radicalization.

        For number 1, you’re basically saying everyone is already a pseudo nazi

        Number two, Nazis are diverse? And they lie to unite them?

        So then not only do they have a platform, but they have larger numbers flocking to this platform, which gives their voices more weight, and makes them feel more supported in their views. It makes them seem more reasonable, more legitimate. It makes them more appealing. They don’t just stand up at the podium and say “gas the Jews”, because they’re not being honest. They say stuff like “I just think we should be concerned about how many Jewish people are in positions of power, using that power to their own ends. I just think it’s strange, that’s all. That doesn’t mean I’m advocating violence. I’m just asking questions, I just have concerns.” and they’re not advocating violence technically, yet. Not in public at least. And if you say" hey that sounds awfully anti-Semitic" they deflect. “it’s just an observation of a fact. Apparently facts are anti-Semitic now”. They have any number of excuses ready for why their views don’t actually count as being anti-Semitic, and if you say otherwise, we’ll, you’re just trying to silence them. Because that’s the thing, once they’ve established themselves, they can start saying that anyone calling them out is against free speech, and use that to start shutting down dessenting voices. They don’t actually care about discussing their views, most of the time they know that their views are extreme, that’s why they couch them in nicer, less honest terms all the time. They don’t care. They just want to gain as much influence and power as possible, and they’ll use any platform they can get their hands on to do it. If you aren’t aware of their tactics and how they work, then it can be difficult to spot what they’re doing, and most people haven’t done research on the subject and thus won’t recognize the dog whistles and manipulation. And their targets aren’t always the Jews, sometimes they’re other groups, like trans people, or left wing groups, or the gays, etc. They might even pick and choose based on whatever gets them more traction at the time. Jews are just their most well known and popular target. But the nazis ultimate goal as a movement/idiology isn’t specifically to get rid of Jews, it’s to gain power. The Jews were just an easy target at the height of their power.

        Again, banging on about lies, and anyone who mentions Jews in that way gets banned (Or at least they should be) The tactic is literally just asking leading questions. 387 words for that? Learn to write concisely.

        Some examples of dog whistles that have been particularly relevant in recent years include calling an entire demographic “groomers” or “pedophiles” and associating then with pedophilia. Claiming that they’re just concerned about protecting a specific vulnerable demographic (this demographic may or may not actually be vulnerable) from a perceived threat. Their favourite demographic is commonly women, children, or in the case of more racist actors, they may be trying to protect their heritage, their genes, their population, their jobs, etc. People who tout the great replacement theory are heavily intertwined with nazi ideology for example, if they’re not just outright nazis. The target of their ire doesn’t really matter, they just need some sort of enemy or boogieman to unite people against, including people who might not otherwise cooperate or associate with them. See how nazis have been cozying up with terf groups, or religious groups, or anti-abortion groups for example.

        That ‘demographic’ are drag queens and teach young kids that being feminine is about over done make-up and dresses. It’s completely antithetical to feminism, and is dangerous to young minds. When we don’t want our kids being exposed to misogyny, y’all cry oppression and act like you’re entitled to our children. Caring that much about access to kids sounds like pedophilia to me. And yes, children are a vulnerable demographic, what the fuck are you on? Also, only dogs can hear dog whistles. It’s basically saying “My opponent didn’t actually say this, but it’s convenient for them to have said this, so I’ll pretend they did anyway”

        • Laticauda@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          Oh I see now why you’re so adamant about giving nazis a platform, you identify with a lot of their views. You spout a lot of the same lies, whether it’s about drag Queen’s or trans people (I recognize you from your bigoted comments in another thread). Just goes to show how effective those lies are on people like you, assuming you aren’t maliciously spreading them that is. Hanlon’s razor and all that.

          • Blamemeta@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I’m pretty sure that Nazis have nothing to do with trans people or drag Queens.

            • Laticauda@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Oh my sweet summer child. Look up Magnus Hirschfield and the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft. Transphobia and homophobia are a fundamental aspect of nazi idiology, and always have been. It might be prudent to take a good long look at your views and where you got them from. Anti-trans groups and nazis have been holding hands for a long, long time.

        • Blamemeta@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          They especially like to take advantage of economic or political strife to get their feet in the door. That strife creates desperation, makes people more susceptible to propaganda that promises a solution and gives them an easy enemy to fight against and a strong group to follow and team up with. Then that group promises that they’re the ones who see the dangers of said enemy, and will thus be the ones to actually do something about it.

          Literally every political group ever does that. “Oh here’s a problem, and to solve this problem, elect us!” That’s not unique. And you’re still banging on about lies.

          Hitler didn’t get popular in a day. He had to build his credibility over time, and giving someone a platform makes them appear more credible no matter how ridiculous you think their claims might seem. And if they catch the ears of enough important people, then they can really utilize their influence.

          Sure, but that’s not unique. No politician is popular immediately, and they all try to bend the ears of important people. You’re not cheating by doing that, you’re supposed to do that. 52 words wasted.

          They aren’t coming to these places of free speech to debate in good faith, they’re coming to find targets, victims, and likeminded people who will group together with them. They’re coming for visibility, and to have more ears to spread their lies to. And those lies can be very convincing to people who are in an easily influenced state of mind, like after a crisis, or an upheaval in their way of life, or if they feel like they’re threatened in some way. They’re master manipulators, gaslighters, and abusers. Maybe not every individual member, but the movement as a whole isn’t the obvious guy carrying a nazi flag and yelling “death to all Jews” in front of government buildings on the news. More often than not those guys are used as a smoke screen, so less obvious nazis can point at those guys and say “see? I’m nothing like him, I’m much more reasonable. So obviously, I can’t be a nazi.” even though they absolutely agree with those guys and feel the same way privately.

          Right, you’re basically saying they’re lying and being manipulative. Again. 175 words wasted.

          Providing a platform for free speech and debate only works if everyone who comes to that platform also believes in free speech, and is acting in good faith. Nazis, as a rule, do not act in good faith. Their goal is to commandeer your platform to gain power and erode the rights of others until they are the ones standing at the top and controlling what is allowed to be said. It doesn’t matter how much you try to point out flaws in their logic, or provide actual rational arguments. Engaging with their talking points is meaningless. They’ll only move the goalposts, or use the most vague convoluted stances that aren’t easily engaged with or debunked. Or they’ll just claim that you’re wrong or lying. To them you’re just a tool they’re using to get what they want. By engaging with their ideas, even to point out their issues, just make them seem more legitimate. After all, you don’t argue with a crazy person, or an evil person. There’s no point in reasoning with people who can’t be reasoned with. Therefore, Nazis must be reasonable to some degree, otherwise it wouldn’t be worth debating or arguing with them, or giving them a platform to do so. Any rare case of someone who aligns with nazi views but actually wants to debate and believes in free speech is, in the eyes of nazis, a recruit waiting to happen. Letting those people expose themselves to more organized nazis is basically throwing them to the wolves and asking for them to be radicalized. Very rarely are these people successfully deradicalized in a public forum, and it’s much easier for the Nazis to convince them that they’re right actually than it is for others to convince them that they are wrong and that their views are bad. You will have a better chance of deradicalizing them in private.

          So basically, you’re anti-free speech because Nazis are manipulative? Now there’s a hot take.

          There’s more, a lot more, too much for me to really go over in a single comment, so I recommend looking into the methods that the nazis have used both in the past as well as recent years. You will start seeing a concerning pattern in their behaviour and methods, as well as in the typical outcome if you let them weasel their way onto your platform.

          More? Man, learn to write concisely. You took 1,496 words to write: “Nazis cheat by being manipulative”