For all the newcomers that aren’t aware, I just stumbled upon this insane drama. Apparently lemmy.ml is the result of a reddit sub ban of a bunch of pro-china bots who vigorously defend the Chinese government, and the two top admins are also the top devs of the Lemmy source software. Pretty terrible stuff!
The linked thread is full of their insane ramblings and denialism
Edit: I seem to have been blocked from commenting, all my replies are timing out now. But I wanted to say that I don’t intend to make this post as an “anti-lemmy” thing, I think the truth should burn brightly in the sunlight. We should try to continue to grow Lemmy (especially since we’re the largest reddit clone) while calling out their propaganda and hidden motive.
Edit2: turns out I can comment, I just can’t reply to kbin user comments from my instance. Just spins indefinitely.
That’s just another falacy.
This time you’re conflating allowing an entity into a group with endorsing a specific characteristic of that entity.
Also you’re still keeping the whole “if they did so half a century ago, they approve of that kind of thing now” angle. That’s an “all present day Germans are Nazis” worldview.
It’s basically the guilt by association falacy but with “like” rather than “is”, i.e. NATO likes Feminist, Machist, pro-Nazi, anti-Nazi, Flat, Mountainous and so on countries because it let countries with such characteristic in.
The only situation were that wouldn’t be a falacy is if it was an organisation explicitly about that characteristic - i.e. an Association Of Democratic Nations - which let in a country with opposite characteristics, which is not the case here since NATO is a military alliance.
It kind of is. Would they have allowed a communist nation to join? I highly doubt it. They could’ve easily said, ”no, you’re fascists, go away.” It’s not like getting fucking Portugal to join was essential.
Hungary and Poland are not exactly democratic. You could even go as far as to say they’re ruled by fascists.
I would agree with this, because at face value it’s true. Liberals are always calling NATO a group of civilized, European, democratic nations though, so you can’t have it both ways.
Well, that’s the thing: you can accuse some (maybe most) leaders of NATO countries of being hypocrites and I’ll agree with you on that.
In fact said leaders are equally hypocrite in exactly the same way also outside that NATO context: look at Macron’s authoritarianism in France imposing his will by decree and supporting the most violent thuggish police in all of Western Europe, or the long long history of the US invading countries for their oil whilst claiming it’s to “free their people” or Britain’s harping about Democracy whilst being “strong allies of Saudi Arabia” (and having one of the least democratic voting system in Europe).
(Mind you, so called “Communist” or ex-“Communist” [I’m sorry but no country still in the “Dictatorship Of The Proletariat” stage with an elite that controls it and self-proclaimed as representatives of the Proletariat has actually reached Communism as per Marx’s definition, so there is not a single genuine Communist nation in the World] are just as hypocrite: look at China’s treatment of Tibetans and support for the next door de-facto Kim Monarchy and at how Russia has been breaking world record after world record in hypocrisy of late)
However that wasn’t your original accusation: your original accusation was that NATO is a Fascist Organization.
Claiming an entire organisation is Fascist is worlds away from saying that some heads of state in it are hypocrites, including in the context of NATO.
Claims that NATO is Democratic are bullshit. Claims that it’s Fascist are even more bullshit.