More than 10,000 Palestinians have been killed in the month since Hamas’ terrorist attacks inside southern Israel, the group’s health ministry in Gaza says.
But Hamas officials say the mounting death toll, believed to include thousands of children, has not caused the group to regret its actions in southern Israel, which Israeli officials said killed 1,400 people.
In fact, Hamas leaders say that their goal was to trigger this very response and that they’re still hoping for a bigger war. It’s all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world’s attention to the Palestinian cause.
Hamas, these officials say, is more interested in the destruction of Israel than what it sees as the temporary hardships faced by Palestinians under Israeli bombardment.
“What could change the equation was a great act, and without a doubt, it was known that the reaction to this great act would be big,” Khalil al-Hayya, a member of the group’s governing politburo, told The New York Times in an interview.
The status quo of actually having people in Gaza? Because at this rate, there won’t be anyone left.
Not true, after Netanyahu and Bennett finish moving all 2 Million of the Palestinians out the place will be filled with Israelites.
When that happens, we owe it to the millions of dead Palestinians to ensure Gaza remains the endless series of explosions it is right now
I don’t think they have much say in the matter tbh. Hamas doesn’t even win by popular votes to begin with, and they probably aren’t very popular at the moment.
Hamas spokesperson Taher El-Nounou told the Times that, rather than end with a cease-fire now, his group would prefer for the conflict to expand.
“I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders and that the Arab world will stand with us,” he told the Times.I suspect Hamas’s attack will cost Palestine many lives and more land but will not lead to a greater war. Every other time their Arab neighbors went to war for the Palestinians it did not work out well for them; Iran is likely to continue to put pressure on Israel via Hezbollah than blow their load with an all-out attack and lose their regional bargaining chip.
It’s all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world’s attention to the Palestinian cause.
This may have stalled recognition by Saudi Arabia but things will normalize again once Gaza is pacified. Israel and the US are better international allies to have than Palestine.
Turns out a mass terror attack on a nation rarely benefits the attacker or the nation that was attacked, normally with the attacker coming away worse than their better armed opponent.
It’s basically 9/11 all over again. But on a smaller scale and with a Middle Eastern nation far happier to be brutal on the targeted side.
Saudi is probably more annoyed at Hamas for getting in the way of their plans than they are considering cutting off their deals.
At this point it is possible that Iran actually plays a role of pacifier with Hezbollah. If conflict is to expand, Iran might get its weapon and centrifuge factories destroyed. It does not need that. It gets no any advantage out of this and with possibility of US being involved it risks additional sanctions.
In fact, Hamas leaders say that their goal was to trigger this very response and that they’re still hoping for a bigger war. It’s all part of a strategy, they say, to derail talks over Israel normalizing relations with regional powers — namely, Saudi Arabia — and draw the world’s attention to the Palestinian cause.
“This was our plan all along!” Lol? At this rate there won’t even be a Palestine to pay attention to…
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Yeah, those monkeys are getting their asses bombed back to the stone ages, as they deserve.
lolwat?! they had no chance to do that. what’s going on now is basically directly their fault. wow.
Curious to see how their apologists will spin that.
Every dead Palestinian Muslim is a martyr to Hamas, no? Every life just another tool to accomplish their religious-political objective, which afaik is solely the destruction of Israel. Or ask yourself why they intentionally link their paramilitary network to schools, hospitals, private residences and such.
Say whatever you want about Israel and Zionism, Hamas are NOT “the good guys” here and never have been. Their actions are indefensible. No amount of whataboutism changes that…
I’ve yet to see anyone defend Hamas’s actions, even from comments that have been reported by others. What people do say is that Hamas’s actions does not excuse Israel’s military committing the atrocities that they are doing. Sounds like you are making up an antagonistic group that aren’t really seen on Lemmy.
There are many people across Lemmy defending Hamas. There’s a few documented at the meanwhileongrad community.
If you go looking for them I’m sure you’ll find degenerates (why are looking for them though?), but they are absolutely not common in the all section from what I’ve seen.
there are literally comments in this thread and every thread like it defending their actions. anyone who refers to both sides being bad is bombarded with accusations of being pro Israel.
yes, there are LOTs of people here defending and justifying hamas actions specifically, and there’s always someone saying “noone is justifying hamas” too
Looks like the Israelis have infiltrated Lemmy.
Ahh well, it was nice while we had it!
I have also heard that this was prefered method, instead of the small build up of deaths by IDF.
When looking at the death toll over the years, Hamas decided to force the hand, which would result in a higher death count in a short period instead of it being drawn out in small deaths over the years.
Heard somewhere that the people in charge of Israel were also helping fund Hamas so as to increase conflict… -Tangent thought: reminded me of Clinton proping up Trump, so as to have an easier win in 2016
This still seems like the war machine pushing for more wars, instead of peace talks.
Crips/bloods and Independent (RFK Jr.) seem to be pushing for more war at the end of the day.
What is this word salad trying to say?
Random thoughts on the subject, while trying to connect it to other problems…
Thanks for letting me know, I made an edit.
Dont share them next time.
That is not how the world works.
Have a great day!
The fact that his meandering nonsense mentions unhinged conspiracy theorist RFK Jr. as if he matters at all or represents something larger than the voices in his own head should tell you everything you need to know.
This guys has 0 clues. Just read his user name.
Not sure how usernames determine everthing about someone.
Viewpoints will not always align with your prefered way of thinking.
It is good to learn to talk with people that are different from what you think, so as to help when talking with others.
Hope you have a great day!
Not sure how usernames determine everthing about someone.
Bro we’ve spent a b u n c h of time having this discussion. You are very confused. Its kind-of sad.
I don’t see it as sad.
Just social media/forum talks with some peeps.
All is good, have a great day!
Translation: War. War never changes
What choice did they realistically have? Be strangled out slowly by Israel while watching settlers pushing borders slowly but surely? No one has given a shit about Palestine since before ISIS / Syria, by my recollection.
That said it’s also, of course, completely inexcusable to kill and take hostage civilians no matter the underlying justifications they might have.
This is just a shit storm about 80 years in the making. And there just isn’t a solution in sight.
Hamas isn’t the Palestinian people, their leaders are wealthy and living abroad. Stop muddying the waters and acting as if Hamas is an oppressed group, they’re not, they’re terrorists. They are NOT representative of the Palestinian people.
It’s the Palestinians in Gaza paying the price regardless. Right or wrong they haven’t ousted Hamas and thus, right or wrong, Israel sees them as one and the same as proven by their indiscriminate bombings.
I didn’t state Hamas represents all Palestinians.
Likewise I didn’t state Hamas is oppressed, a terror organization can’t by definition be “oppressed” in the sense that we should pity them.
What I did state was that driving someone into a corner like Israel has been doing with Palestinians for decades leads to attacks. And it’s not like 100% of Hamas members are non-Palestinians.
Even if one believes that violence was the only option that the Palestinians had left, how can anyone justify their indiscriminate targeting of civilians instead of going after military and political targets? (I don’t mean you btw, I mean in general.)
Nobody ever won a revolution by killing their oppressor’s grandma and taking children hostage, so it’s clear that Hamas are less freedom fighters and moreso simple terrorists.
I agree
Palestinians didn’t have a choice on who “leads” them either. Hamas hasn’t held a vote for 20 years.
What choice did they realistically have? Be strangled out slowly by Israel while watching settlers pushing borders slowly but surely?
there just isn’t a solution in sight.There are non-violent solutions. They could come to terms with the fact they lost this conflict a long time ago, pacify themselves, and sue for a viable peace; that’s the best path out of this long conflict I can see. Constant attacks against an enemy they cannot defeat is what led to their current miserable situation.
So your solution is for the palestinians to just give up? Constant guerrilla attacks are what drove the US out of afghanistan and iraq and vietnam. So how is that not going to work for Hamas? Hamas has a network of tunnels below Gaza so that entire region will become a kill zone and Israel won’t be able to hold it. History doesn’t repeat itself but it sure does rhyme.
There was no Gaza occupation. The conflict happens because Hamas goal is to drive Jews to the sea, to completely destroy Israel. Which it shows again and again that it is willing to do with maximum cruelty.
True, there was no direct occupation anymore with Israeli soldiers patrolling the streets. But the whole of Gaza was walled off, blockaded by sea, air, etc. The flow of goods (even from Egypt) was subject to Israeli control. The flow of people was tightly controlled as well. The IDF conducted military operations in Gaza at will. The IDF has killed children, journalists, etc with impunity, even before this operation.
Hamas is terrible, their actions are terrible, and their stated goals are terrible. But the conflict is not solely because of them. The government of Israel is far from blameless in perpetuating the conflict. Especially as some Israeli politicians are on the record as supporting Hamas’ rise to power in order to delegitimize Fatah and the Palestinian Authority, and specifically to derail the two state solution and any chance at a lasting peace.
So your solution is for the palestinians to just give up?
My solution is for Palestinians to surrender and try to achieve their goals diplomatically rather than through violence, that is not the same as giving up on achieving their goals. It’s possible for them to negotiate for freedom, right of return, freedom of travel, national recognition, removal of the blockade, autonomy, peace, safety, and economic prosperity. Although it will be a bitter pill for the uncompromising to swallow, the only thing I think they will have to give up on is the annexed lands. Those were lost to them after they declared war multiple times and were defeated, they are unlikely to get them back. Further violence will not change this and would likely leave them with even less.
Constant guerrilla attacks are what drove the US out of afghanistan and iraq and vietnam.
The US sent military into these places for political ends. When these engagements became expensive and unpopular, the politics shifted and the US withdrew. Israel has no where to withdraw to and their goals are not political, they are existential. Giving up for Israel means being genocided and driven into the sea. Israeli political distaste for this ongoing conflict will not end it.
Hamas has a network of tunnels below Gaza so that entire region will become a kill zone and Israel won’t be able to hold it.
That’s quite an imagination. At best they will take out some IDF soldiers but still lose this vastly asymmetrical conflict. It seems to me that Israel is just bombing the tunnels and causing them to collapse because building them under civilians, using them as human shields wasn’t the deterrent Hamas thought it was. Furthermore, I expect Israel to annex more lands if that’s what it takes to keep themselves safe.
The choice was really simple. Not opposing a two state solution would have been a great start. All their actions have been to subvert peace or compromise using violence at every turn.
Now you can twist that however you like, but will you really deny that having an independent internationally-recognized Palestinin state is better than endless war, thousands of civilians dead, etc? Albeit perhaps less than they want or think they deserve? It would be a start.
Face it, their “all or nothing” approach is exactly responsible for the current state of affairs. They don’t deny that, they are proud of it. Read their own words.
Hamas or Israel? Hamas actually announced support for a two state solution back in like 2006. Israel, on the other hand, has never granted Palestinian statehood on terms they could possibly accept. Look at the Oslo Accords - all kinds of concessions for Palestine, this insane military framework going through the West Bank - but no statehood. Basically every time there’s a “peace process” they pose these decreasingly compelling terms.
that’s advocating for a single state (theirs) and Israel to cease to exist. how very reasonable of them
Settlers weren’t in Gaza
