Yeah, you anti-genocidal fucks.
Even completely ignoring all the history of the region and how the current State of Israel came to be and only focusing on the present in a vacuum, there is still is a glaring contradiction that I have never heard any sort of coherent answer from people who support Israel’s actions: If you truly believe that simply having an opinion against Israel’s actions against Palestinians is antisemitic (or simply being a Palestinian that’s still alive is antisemitic according to too many people), then surely it also holds that both Israel’s outright killing of Palestinians and their ongoing apartheid policies preventing Palestinians from existing in the same areas as Jews is anti-Arab right? Is being anti-Arabic somehow preferable to being antisemitic? Are Arabs not human beings and do they not deserve the same rights and protection as Jews or literally any other human? What makes it okay for Israel to be anti-Arab then?
One of the half baked arguments I have heard is that Israel is “justified” in being anti-Arabic because “it’s in self defense against Palestinians that want to kill them,” but if you make that assertion, then what makes the other side different? Israel is certainly not just attacking the Hamas and there have been more Palestinian civilian victims than Israeli civilian victims so wouldn’t you saying that also automatically imply the inverse and equally justify the Hamas’ actions against Israel? You can’t attack someone while claiming self defense and then cry foul when they defend themselves against you.
ya, but Israeli are white, those other sub humans are brown you fool./s
Okay, so I have a few points: If some people say that disagreeing with Israel is anti-semitic, they are just wrong. I myself know a lot of Jews who disagree with the current Netanyahu’s government’s actions (so do I) and they are definitely not anti-semitic. It’s definitely valid to point out Israel’s mistakes in this conflict (e.g. occupation of the west bank, radical opinions of some politicians such as throwing a nuclear bomb onto gaza, etc.). No one can call you anti-semitic for that. However, if you support Hamas in their mission and call for the removal of the state of Israel, it can be considered anti-semitic because you practically ask for killing millions of Jews.
You have also mentioned that Israel is anti-Arab which is not true. Currently fifth of the population is Arab and they have exactly the same rights as Jews. Also I don’t understand how Israel is apartheid. The people who are supposed to be oppressed are literally under a different authority. That’s like saying France is apartheid because Germans do not have the same rights in France as French people have
You seem to misunderstand the Israeli occupation of Palestine. The West Bank is very much governed by the IDF and they treat Jews differently than non Jews. The IDF can legally detain Palestinians for up to 6 months without charges while being required to defend settlers who attack and harass Palestinians. They undermine the Palestinian Authority and override their supposed authority all the time. Gaza is more of an open air prison as people can’t leave. The reason Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza is because they did in the past and it was uneconomical.
There are a ton of people who basically paint all pro Palestinian groups and protests as antisemitic, from the ADL to Israeli lobbyists. These people are totally unreasonable and have a large amount of influence. “Opposing Israel’s actions = anti-Zionism = antisemitism,” isn’t the fringe narrative it should be. At the same time, there are braindead so called, “leftists,” who can’t comprehend that both Netanyahu’s government and Hamas are genocidal theocratic fascists. They’re also frustrating as fuck and cannot be tolerated. Far too many have lost their minds and morals over this conflict.
First of all you say that the West Bank is governed mostly by the IDF. To be more accurate, the West Bank is divided into 3 zones while some are under total Palestinian control, others under joint control and some and controlled solely by IDF. There are exactly zero Jews living in the areas which belong solely to Palestinian authorities. Israel respects that. What they do not respect is the status of undisputed territories where they continue to make settlements. These are, under the international law, considered illegal and the decisions were also supported by the Supreme Court of Israel. About the Palestinian authority: most of citizens in the West Bank support Hamas over the leadership of Mahmud Abbas. There is literally no authority to undermine.
I do not think Gaza is an open air prison formed by Israel. Israel is not even able to lock it completely out because of the sea and the border with Egypt. So I would rather call it a land with which no one wants to have anything in common. If “Gazans” were peace-loving people hated by Israel for no reason, they would at least have a normal relationship with Egypt, which, as we know, is not the case. In addition, the genocide by Israel somehow does not work because the population of Palestinians has been rising throughout the whole time of the conflict.
With the rest, I pretty much agree. Criticism of Israel is not anti-Zionism and definitely not anti-semitism. I would also like to see Netanyahu out. He tried to weaken the judiciary, he formed a government with radicals who are “proud homophobes” and who believe that “Israel should use a nuclear bomb in Gaza” and didn’t do much in order to resolve the land in the West Bank, but rather built illegal settlements. Apart from that, the intelligence failure was quite massive. Hamas, on the other hand, attacked Israel with one goal in mind: killing and torturing as many Jews as possible (simply because they are Jews) and radicalized the population so much that even Arab countries (such as Egypt) would rather sacrifice millions of lives for the sake of not accepting Palestinians as refugees.
Israel is right leaning
They censoring the word Israel now? Wild.
Only those posts they suspect will be taken down automatically
Where? Here? Wait, does lemmy have auto content removal?
Chances are this was not created for lemmy
E. Fair enough. Didn’t really consider that. Haven’t used other social media for a while now.
Why? And why is it half assed?
All you need to do to avoid content filters is make it not machine readable.
Circlejerk rather than shitpost.
The hubris and the gall of those crazy leftists, they don’t want dead babies what monsters!
It is interesting how split opinions are here. Young democrats are more pro Palestine, older Dems are more pro Israel (although a little harsh). Republicans think Israel is doing the right thing.
You really need to understand that there is a waaay bigger political spectrum than “Democrats” and “Republicans”. Especially when it comes to foreign policy.
Random condescension on Lemmy, what else is new.
I was basing my statement on an NPR poll and those were the categories that they used.
You are dn the internet and not everyone here is from the US.
The US political system is not the center of the political world.
In fact, I think that the Democrat Republican dichotomy is one reason why people in the west are so badly informed when it comes to politics.
Take off your offended pants and reread what they wrote. If that’s condescension then you’re too sensitive for the internet and should probably log off.
I am being condescending. They were not.
Lemmy seems obsessed with needless disputes and pedantic “gotcha” moments. (Your comment exemplifies my point beautifully, by the way.) It is condensing to read my comment in the uncharitable light of arguing the US political spectrum applies abroad. But instead of trying to discern what the other person means, a lot of you would rather find a disagreement where there is none.
You’re both being condescending and can happily fuck off.
Ah so you DO need to log off.
In all seriousness my comment was meant to come off as condescending to highlight the difference. If you want to be mad at the world go right ahead. You’re the one with the shitty outlook, ya fucking baby. 👶🏻
And there it is. You’re just trolling, you have nothing of value to say. Try to be a little less blatant next time.
Hey would you fuck off already?
Not American, but there is a shift lately that makes me feel a little hopeful. Like for the first time my parents and in-laws are starting to see how not all criticism of Israel has to be antisemitic.
Yes that does mean we’re having to be more vigilant for actual antisemitism (especially online), but it’s still progress of a sort.
Young democrats are more pro-dont-commit-war-crimes, older dems are disensitized by war-crimes and obsessed with anti-terrorism.
Republicans love the war machine and think that genocide/wiping out the opposing side is the only way to resolve anything.
How do you think Israel should have responded after the Hamas attack?
When the enemy is operating out of hospitals, it becomes a choice between do nothing and hit civilians each time you strike military.
Why don’t Hamas operate out of military bases?
For the PR hit against Israel whenever their bases are attacked.
The conversations on here are proof enough of that. Everyone gets mad whenever Israel attacks Hamas, because of the civilian shields, and no one can ever come up with an alternative for what Israel should do.
That’s an effective tactic on the part of Hamas.
And why do you think those hospitals allow Hamas to operate there?
Could it be that every Palestinian is scared to get indiscriminately killed by Israel, no matter if they help Hamas or not?
Wrong. Find out where the Palestinian military bases are.
Issue is many young people don’t realize it’s mostly Hamas ruining people’s lives and many older ones cannot admit mistakes made by Israel.
Or people are just completely on one side (which is imho impossible). Either they support Israel or they support Palestine and want Israel out. You know how few balanced opinions I have seen?
Exactly, and the few being balanced part is what drives us crazy. My wife is Jewish and has family in Israel. While we hate Hamas we dislike the orthodox Jews almost as much. Even with everything going on we care for the Palestinians that are mixed up with this and acknowledge both sides are truly bad in this. The enemy is Hamas not Palestine. Israel the nation isn’t the problem, it’s Netanyahu and company. None of that matters however as she has been spit on and treated like shit ever since this started just for her ethnicity.
There is so much information warfare going on and I am sure of it. As soon as that first hospital blew up, media immediately blamed the IDF before any evidence was out. Then all evidence pointed to Hamas being responsible and it barely got covered. Hamas is using hospitals as hiding spots at the very least. Meanwhile they do their best to heard and trap civilians into the crossfire while the IDF steamrolls. The whole situation is just fucked.
It is just so aggravating how everyone treats this as a black and white struggle like Ukraine when it is anything but. It’s two shitheads fighting; with Israel at least having dissenters while Palestine is run like a dictatorship. That’s the only simple part.
It is black and white, many Israelis don’t approve of IDF committing genocide and murdering thousands of civilians. But hey, Hamas did some stuff…
Whats black and white? This conflict? Not at all mate. First of all, IDF is not committing genocide. If they were, the number of Palestinians would not double in last 70-ish years. Killing unintentionally around 10k civilians (less than 0.5% of the Gaza’s population) because terrorists were hiding between them and Hamas built no shelters is not a genocide. I do not approve killing civilians but calling this genocide is very inaccurate. Secondly, Hamas is a terrorist organization which wants to eliminate Israel (plus 12 million Jews) and they have to be removed as soon as possible.
However, Israel has also been illegally occupying areas of the West Bank despite UN’s and Israeli supreme court’s decision, so they are not angels either.
Hence why the conflict is anything but black and white.
You know, when neo-nazis align themselves with anti israel leftists, I would say that’s not good, but apparently western “communists” kniw better then anyone, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, enjoy being on the same side with neo nazis, must feel great isnt it?
damn i look good
Sure do king…I’ll leave your bathroom now.
A hard look, you say?
To the leftist who is stunned by this message:
Think of Jordan Peterson. There was a time where he was riled up against “ideologies who would kill people in the name of a higher good.” And he named examples, Stalin and Mao most prominently. For all the abstract criticisms of ideologies, he rarely distances himself from Fascism, named Hitler only very occasionally as an example.
Now he is forethinker for the Republican Fascist party which is now normalizing the exact dehumanizing language that the Nazis used to prepared and justify their concentration camps.
Antifascists caught his thought patterns early on and warned of him using fascist arguments much more sensitive than most people, the missing distancing from Hitler along his other prominent examples being one of them.
Now, dear leftists, the mirror of this arguments wants to ask you if you are really only motivated by reducing human suffering and wanting peace. And if so, you cannot ignore the role of Hamas in this longtime ongoing conflict nor in this war. If you skip that, if that’s not in your mirror, it’s big time necessary to go outside your bubble. Because then chances are you are a puppet playing the propaganda trumpet for the Hamas, or otherwise playing in their hands.
Tedious as it may be, missing distance to a terrorist group like that in a conflict like that is a big red flag.
And just as a tedious albeit necessary disclaimer, I believe Netanyahu and quite a bunch of other Israeli actors belong in a courtroom and then in jail for their atrocities, and certainly not in power.
And if so, you cannot ignore the role of Hamas in this longtime ongoing conflict nor in this war.
Israel created Hamas, because they wanted to destabilize the PLO and Fatah. They continue to recruit more people for Hamas by killing fathers, wives, and children indiscriminately. Israel’s only path forward is genocide–either literal, or through the absolute destruction of Palestinian identity–much like we did in the US to the Native Americans.
That is at best a totally skewed version. Yea we know Netanyahu for a few years let the Hamas grow, and we have records of him with vaguely the reasoning you have there.
But to make Israel entirely responsible for the existence for the Hamas, and for what the Hamas does and wants, demands a world view of an all powerful Jewish government that plans and executes for immense time frames that span generations. Don’t we have that though pattern in widely spread antisemitic conspiracy theories?
Lmao. It’s beyond pathetic how hard people try to paint literally anything as antisemitic. Do you actually think anyone takes this kind of comment seriously? It’s such a ridiculous stretch.
Not to mention that to set it up in the first place, you had to lie and downplay Netanyahu’s involvement with Hamas as if it doesn’t matter. Lies on top of lies. You must think the rest of us are so fucking stupid.
I look fantastic, at peace with myself, and pacifist, as I work for a world without conflict.
