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So, this is why the laptop reboots while in my bag. Cool -_-
Like all these complaints about Windows: this can be changed in the settings
Apparently not in Windows settings:
If the BIOS says it supports Modern Standby, Windows takes it at its word and completely disables the ability to enter S3 sleep (classic standby). There’s no official or documented option for disabling Modern Standby through Windows, which is incredibly annoying.
Side note: for a while, there was actually a registry setting you could change to disable Modern Standby on the Windows side. Unfortunately, Microsoft removed it, and to my knowledge, has never added it back.
I’m not a Windows user, so I can’t confirm one way or the other, but toward the end of the end of the article the author gives vendor-specific instructions for disabling the S0 Low Power Idle capability from BIOS.
Mostly incorrect, entering the BIOS and having the toggle to switch between S0 and S3 (or, “Linux”) sleep does indeed exist but it is hard to identify what models have it (I hear Lenovo’s BIOS simulator helps) and it’s increasingly being removed in newer models or even removed in updates. Dell has no interest in putting it back and recommends hibernate or just powering off the machine when on-the-go.
I made sure the ThinkPad I own personally had the toggle but my work-issued one does not so it is now a Hibernate-only machine. No setting can help that.
the point is we shouldn’t be having to do this extra work. MS is one shit misleading and deceptive crappy turd of a company and ll its directors and staff need to be thrown into prison as fucking criminals. no alternative.
It’s so bad for Widnows handhelds, laptops and tablets I’ve resorted to re-enabling hybernation and using that instead.
Which I’m sure will be disabled as an option at some random point in time with no warning.
Huh, is this also why my gaming PCs the last 5 or so years are absolutely dogshit at staying asleep? I’ve never come across the term even though I’ve spent too much time troubleshooting and identifying which peripheral woke the computer up. The most annoying thing is that there is a toggle for “allow wake event” in device manager but it seems to be a mild suggestion at best… For some devices like keyboard and mouse it’s 50/50 if it does anything it seems. I’ve resorted to just locking and shutting the screen off…
I swear Microsoft is intentionally trying to drive me away to Linux. Tried everything you can imagine to stop my pc from waking up when I put to sleep or hibernation. Yet the best I can get is it always waking up first time and then properly sleeping after the second attempt. I’m only stopped because of VR and dumb Anti cheat in a few games.
You’re going to hate that laptops like the Dell xps 13 specifically stopped supporting the better, older s3 sleep. Though in some cases linux may work well with “modern standby”. It still isn’t as good as s3.
Apparently S3 is “less secure” according to FWUPD. Fuck sleep to idle. I hope it dies and S3 (sleep to RAM) makes an epic comeback.
Interesting. The attack involves physical access cold boot attacks and messing with the ram. At that point threatening me with a $5 wrench may be more effective. But I get the idea and a very select few folks probably care a lot about this. Shame we can’t just enable S3 in the BIOS.
I don’t have this issue, except once when I got my first desktop connected with wired internet. Turns out, yeah the wired internet (or the adapter/driver) can actually wake the computer… Turned it off and been mostly problem free from wakeups.
To make it worse, newer Intel CPUs can’t even enter S3 state.
I was kinda shocked to switch from an i5-6300U to a i5-1145G7 and not find more options in /sys/power/mem_sleep, but literally only s2idle. At least it works (i believe).
Maybe actual hibernation works now, too.
Go Team Red next time. They still support S3, and probably CSM too.
It’s not like I had a choice, both (or rather: almost all of my devices) are just sorted out tech my dad brought home from work. Even old desktop PCs are good as servers. And my current Laptop just has some small marks, that wouldn’t look good for an employee representing a company, but are irrelevant for me.
If I buy a Laptop, it will definitely be a Framework. Costs like a (cheap) MacBook, but is better in basically every way. And: Fully Team Red,
The important part, for the lazy:
For Modern Standby to work properly, the device Windows is running on needs to support it. That includes hardware like network interfaces and USB, but also support from system firmware and device drivers. But Microsoft doesn’t seem to have any sort of certification process or runtime hardware check for Modern Standby compatibility.
Easy fix, it will be a requirement for Windows 12, unfortunately you all need to buy new computers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ugh, I had a Latitude 7210 2-in-1 and upgraded the 2230 SSD to a Western Digital SN530(?) one. Turns out after hours of troubleshooting Modern Standby, poring over Sleep Studies (“why is it draining 8% of battery an hour asleep?”) that the specific drive I put in didn’t “support” “Modern” Standby?
Anyways I have a ThinkPad with S3 sleep now and the fans actually turn off when I put it to sleep so that’s a win.
Tell me why~!
Ain’t nothin’ but a heartache
Well, two of my Arch Linux desktops recently don’t like to shut down but reboot instead. What gives?
Borked ACPI implementation. Lubuntu 18.04 used to do this on my HP 2000 Notebook PC (not my daily driver)
on two completely different systems, one of which is an HP prebuilt desktop and the other a custom made one, when it worked flawlessly before and just suddenly stopped working with Kernel 6.1? Even if that’s an ACPI fuckup by the manufacturer, they seem to have patched out the Kernel’s mitigations for it.
Doesn’t this waste more power being connected rather than actually sleeping? With a laptop lid closed, there’s no screen to show notifications on. What’s the point of this?
The point is that Microsoft can run malware whenever and however they like. It is not useful for the user.
c’mon Microsoft, your PCs are eepy
I feel like this is about tracking. As in microsoft want the PC to wake up and scan wifi networks to figure out where it is, so they can use this data for targeted ads they serve in the start menu and bing, etc.
The myth about ads in the Windows start menu is strong on Lemmy. I’ve not once got an ad in Windows. There is certainly bloatware but nothing is actively pushing ads to you. My Windows 11 start menu looks like this: https://i.imgur.com/4bBHT3V.png It’s simple and has no ads. The only thing you could argue is an ad is my weather and news widget that comes with Windows 11 but I had to explicitly activate that and I wanted the feed to be there.
It’s not a myth - I just fired up the install of Windows I have in a virtual machine. It’s a clean install, downloaded direct from Microsoft with a license key the gave me through their Developer Program… absolutely nothing has ever been installed on it, and the start menu has ads for:
- Office 365
- Spotify
- There’s a note under that - the more you use your device, the more we’ll show “New Apps” here. So presumably if it wasn’t a clean install, I’d see more ads in the start menu.
- Even worse - the Task Bar has an ad for Microsoft Teams. I can’t figure out how to remove that one either - right click does nothing, left click asks me if I want to “get started” with installing Teams. At least the ones in the start menu can be removed with a few clicks.
They are definitely ads - when you click on them it takes you to the Microsoft store page… except for Office 365 which I assume is part of OneDrive - I can forgive that one, since it’s part of their free cloud storage service and probably should be integrated into the OS. If you’re not doing cloud storage of some kind, you should be.
To argue those are ads would be equal to arguing anything preinstalled on Linux is ads or anything preinstalled on your phone is ads.
The difference is that these programs are not preinstalled. They are shortcuts to install said program.
Most distros have a whole app that shows you recommendations for programs to install.
Which you can click away in a matter of seconds and never encounter them ever again, even after updates.
Did you also know there is an option to disable suggested apps, which removes every and all notifications you may consider ads?
Did you disable it, or do you like complaining too much?
Oh I have it disabled. Pretty much among the first things I do with any new windows install is disable and uninstall as much bullshits as microsoft preloads. It gets pretty annoying though how much there is you have to opt out of. I also like complaining about them so you’re not too wrong there.
At least they are still better than samsung in that regard who preload facebook on their phones as a system app thereby preventing the user from uninstalling it.
The spotlight lock screen also has ads, but you can set it to any other lock screen to disable it. There are also ways to keep spotlight and disable the ads, and the ads are at least hidden behind a mouse hover and not immediately visible by default.
I have not seen start menu ads aside from the default bloat, but I also replace it with Start11 so I rarely see the default start menu anymore.
Still, if I’m going to own a $200 license for an operating system, I want no ads at all.
Eh, I don’t see the lock screen as ads. They aren’t trying to sell anything. They are telling you some neat daily facts.
I swear I’ve seen an ad on it before, but I may be misremembering. Either way, I haven’t seen the text in ages anyway, so it doesn’t bug me much.
Maybe, but Microsoft’s competitors are doing a lot better on the battery life front so they’re leaving a lot on the table for competitors to swoop in by not fixing their sleep and wake issues. It was a big consideration for the company I work at to go with Apple machines because they do lots of field work and need the machines running all day. I can say from experience it’s incredibly frustrating to leave home with my MS Surface on a full charge only for it to have majority of the battery drained by the time I pull it out of my backpack due to waking up when it wasn’t supposed to.
This is one reason I have a “hibernate” shortcut on my desktop so I don’t have to deal with the hassle of having to hunt for that button.
If you are curious, creating your own hibernate shortcut on windows is easy:
- Right click desktop
- Select new > shortcut
- Copy this into the shortcut: “C:\Windows\System32\shutdown.exe /h” obviously replace C:\Windows\ with the installation drive/folder on your machine.
- (Optional: Change the icon for the shortcut to a useful picture)
- Done
Bad behavior in Windows article up on the Fediverse for four hours and no one telling us how their Linux laptop doesn’t have this problem?
My Linux laptop doesn’t have this problem 😁.
Sounds like it’s a combo of bad Windows behavior and buggy implementations, but had to deliver the joke first.
No, if your motherboard/BIOS/ACPI/CPU does not support S3, linux will not magically implement it. This has nothing to do with Windows.
Mine doesn’t either 😁😁😁
My Linux laptop doesn’t have this problem as well except for when I have an external drive plugged via USB which was almost always for backups: then it makes the screen go black and turns the fans on 100% and stays that way. Forever. If I’m fast enough there’s a small window of time where I can mash random buttons to make it wake up again. Luckily this doesn’t seem to happen with external SSDs plugged in via USB so it’s all good 🤷♀️
My Linux laptop doesn’t have this problem, in fact it enters such a deep sleep that it needs to be force shutdown and rebooted if I remove any USB device whilst it’s asleep
Haha, we sound like people complainimg about the weather, it’s either to hot or too cold! Too much sleeping, not enough sleeping, you can’t make these weird humans happy either way! __
My Linux laptop goes to sleep, but not without errors. Every time I close open that lid it’s a bunch of terminal errors about devices, notably bluetooth. Cool. Thumbs up
That explains why my 2017 Dell XPS 13 9360 with an 8th gen i7 never went to sleep properly. Originally it would just keep running the fans and the battery would drain. Then after a while it seemed to start sleeping but never turned on again so you’d have to reboot anyway. In the end I wiped Windows 11 off it and installed OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. Now shutting the lid works just fine.
I also have an XPS 13 9310 with an 11th gen i7 and Windows 11, and if I close the lid it seems to sleep but sometimes I come back to a completely dead battery.
I don’t really understand the point of Modern Standby. Who wants the laptop to do things when it’s closed and possibly in a backpack with no ventilation? That’s when we want it not to do things.
My desktop is the same way, “sleep” means the lights are on but nobody’s home.
People are using their smartphones instead of their PCs. That hurts sales. So PCs need to behave more like smartphones, e.g. by being able to notify you of new messages at all times. Then people will surely ditch their smartphones again and buy laptops.
Intel, Microsoft et al never considered that that’s fundamentally not how PCs should work.
This is one area where Apple has it pretty right. A Mac will do somethings when ‘asleep’ like download emails and texts. It also can broadcast its location if the ‘Find Me’ function is on. If it’s plugged into power then backups will also run, and background app updates will happen. It does this in a low power mode, so it won’t get hot enough to need fans. It’s worked flawlessly for 20 years. Meanwhile all our PCs are set to ‘never sleep’ and just get shutdown when not in use. I never trust a PC laptop to wake successfully from sleep just by closing the lid.
I have problems where when my Apple Silicon MacBook Pro will have been “asleep” for days in a backpack and then I try and use my Bluetooth headphones on another device, it will connect to the asleep Macbook.
I solved it by running a small program that kills Bluetooth when the laptop goes to sleep.
So instead of looking into the settings and disabling fastboot, you decided to completely wipe the OS and install something else?
And here I thought Linux users understood technology…
It’s not at all a fastboot issue, and I had other reasons to use Linux.
Fastboot has nothing to do with this.
Sad that the computers can’t get any rest :(((((
