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At first I didn’t see any actual evidence that this was connected to Trump, so I figured everyone here was just assuming it was Trump based on how shitty this practice is. I definitely assumed the same.
(If you zoom wayyyy in his name is there, though.)
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The thing is, America is culturally really influenctial. Here in Germany we have a wide variety of jobs that typically pay minimum wage. Some are service related, others aren’t. It’s roughly 20% of the workforce.
But we listen to american podcasts, watch your movies, your series and so on.
So waiters tend to get minimum wage + tax free tips, while cashiers just get minimum wage. Granted, tips are more like 10% here. I hate tips being an expectation.
Wouldn’t the whole system make more sense as a commission based wage scale that is tied to the price of the items ordered? A base wage that meets legal requirements added to an incentive tied to a percent of each item sold?
The variable percentage would be tied to how much the waiter sold and what items, which would scale with both the amount of work (on large tables) and the skill of the waiter to help the business move product and give the customer a good experience.
The balance point being selling as much as possible while providing the customer an experience they want to return to.
Any hard selling and under serving keeps people from wanting to come back and hurts the business. Any lack of care in service prevents additional sales that can boost wage earnings and prevents the business from not selling stock before it goes bad.
Discretionary tipping is dumb, even if you are a capitalist. There is a balance that doesn’t stagnate the business or create exploitative labor practices. We just don’t do it because we are a social democracy that has a systemic misunderstanding of when capitalism is good and when it is bad.
It’s a terrible practice and ultimately hurts workers. It should be banned simply because it promotes worker tax evasion, which is not what I really care about here, but it’s a good reason to make it illegal. Making it illegal is only way to stop it in the US. It’s absolutely rampant. You pick up donuts At the dunkin store and they ask for a tip now.
it promotes worker tax evasion
this is the only argument I’ll hear in favor of tipping. People should cheat on their taxes until they pay as little as the wealthy.
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It’s sad how much work has been put into convincing worker to buy this shit. It is not to their benefit. If you would make however much money after tips, you should still expect to make that same amount in a wage if we remove tips. It’s just a hurdle for everyone to jump through so restaurant owners aren’t held accountable to pay their staff. It’s also not uncommon for them to not make up the difference if the staff doesn’t make minimum wage after tips, which they are legally required to do.
Tipping is a racket. If it were in the workers favor, why would their bosses be so in favor of it? If the person who you’re working for is ever in favor of something financial, you should pay attention because you should probably be on the other side. If it makes them more money then it’s likely costing you money
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I worked at Pizza Hut in the 90s, and waitresses were usually making $200+ in tips for a 6 hour shift. This was in a state where they were paid full minimum wage of $4.95.
I delivered pizzas and made $5.50 plus an average of $30 in tips for a 6 hour shift.
Tipping culture does not create better service, have you ever been to Italy? People tip because its the social norm, not because they like the service.
I’m sorry but I have to take issue with “service is miles ahead”.
American table service is weird. It’s an uncomfortable experience for anyone who isn’t used to it. You can call it a cultural difference but it genuinely gave us a feeling of revulsion - the fake friendliness, the platitudes, the hovering near the table, the constant refilling, the fucking survey mid-meal, the attentiveness barely concealing the determination to extract your money and shove you out and get another mark on the door.
Perhaps because most of these things seem to primarily seek to recreate the experience of a slave owner and their chattel.
I’m an American and this stuff has always bothered me. I do hate having my drink empty, but I don’t need a refill when I have half left either.
Service in Japan and South Korea is better than in American restaurants and you don’t have to bribe the staff to be nice to you. The price on the menu is usually cheaper too.
Also, pooled tips are basically a slush fund for wages since the entire point of tipping is supposed to be to reward good service and if the tip isn’t going directly to the person who provides the service, what’s the point? Ditto for any tip on a service that hasn’t even been performed yet, such as delivery services.
All that said: Outside of higher end catered meals in Europe, service at even a halfway decent restaurant in the US is miles ahead. Mostly because the staff knows that is how they get their bonuses.
If your idea of good service is having a waiter with faked cheer jump at you every five minutes loaded with a jug of ice cubes to check if “everything is great”, then sure, the US style is miles ahead.
If you just want a professional to do his job as unobtrusively as possible, the European way is the one to pick.
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I mean, you’re paying them either way. Businesses money for salaries comes from customers. It’s still silly and indirect, but it’s not like you wouldn’t be paying the workers’ salary anyway.
It hides the true cost of the meal and allows both the employee and the employer to avoid taxes on this part of the “salary”
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As a Brit this seems like such a ridiculous attitude to have.
When you go out for food you are paying for:
- Quality ingredients
- The knowledge and skill of someone to take those ingredients and make a nice meal out of them
If you’re dining in you also get:
- A nice place to sit with good lighting and a nice ambiance
- Someone to bring your food
- Someone to clean away your dirty dishes
If you are getting delivery you instead pay for someone to bring it to you.
The food itself is like 40% of what you’re paying for, the rest is just convenience and atmosphere.
That’s where we eventually started getting feezer pizzas instead of take-out. Compared to the pain in the ass of ordering food (assuming the place is even open), it was easier just to throw one in the oven, and way cheaper too.
Without tipping their entirely hourly wage has to come out of what you pay for the meal. Thus the price of your meal will go up to make up for what they used to get in tips.
I’d rather have that. Why is responsibility of covering wages shifting to the customer? And in return the blame? Sounds like a situation those in charge love, since instead of them being the bad guy they get to say “what an asshole customer right?” it’s their fault your take home pay is lower today.
Hiding behind the customer going darn then it’s out of my hands. Don’t got money to spare. Then they hop in their expensive car and drive to their expensive home instead of them being the ones to pay a proper wage for their employees.
Sounds like a misleading system all around.
Or, maybe, the owners of the restaurant make slightly less profit and pay their employees a living wage.
There are a small number of restaurants across the US that actually do pay their servers and other employees reasonable hourly rates, and make it clear to patrons that they don’t accept tips. Prices are still reasonable and customers do continue coming back.
Or, maybe, the owners of the restaurant make slightly less profit and pay their employees a living wage.
And maybe landlord start handing over deeds to the people paying their mortgages. But we’re operating in reality and need to consider things that might happen.
If companies eat the cost of pay increases how will the executives afford that new yacht they’ve been eyeing?
I know it sounds really easy to get all huffy and self-righteous, but 60% of restaurants do not make it past the first year, and 80% go under in five years.
It’s hard out there. If the place isn’t making money, everyone loses their job.
Yeah, but then it shouldn’t really exist as a business in the first place according to the rules of capitalism, should it?
You’re not wrong, but my point is that we’re dealing with laws of math here. You can’t just go “Just accept less profit” when the majority don’t make enough profit to survive. That money has to come from somewhere.
My mom ran a couple restaurants at different times in her life. She’s a high school drop-out who has never had a great job so it isn’t like she’s some high class capitalist. Both restaurants failed within a year or two, and she came out each time quite a bit worse than she went in. The company in charge of the building locked the doors and kept all her stuff in lieu of rent. It’s pretty brutal. She lost all the money she put into it well beyond any money she might have made on the business itself, and she went into debt each time as a result of the failing business as well.
And that is how it works in all other civilised countries. One should think it would be possible to work in the US as well.
Good. Pay workers more.
Then the menu prices should be raised to pay a livable wage to the staff. If I can’t afford it I’ll eat at home. Don’t lure people in with the promise of one price and then guilt them into subsidizing your payroll off the book.
Tipping culture needs to go away, it’s not the norm elsewhere and it shouldn’t be here.
Yeah, people don’t likes hidden charges or surprise fees. It’s “optional” but not really if you want to be a part of society.
You’re paying for both.
Tipping is dumb, but tipping in Trump propaganda 10x dumb.
10x asshole move, I’d say.
Basically like saying “I think tipping sucks and your boss should be rolling your pay into the meal. So I’m not going to tip you. That said, I’m also going to vote for the party that supports your boss offloading employee pay onto customer tips.”
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That’s way too complicated for them to understand. I’m not joking. We should all be very afraid of their weaponized stupidity. Idiocracy is here.
Tipping seems to be a cultural thing in the States.
Here in the UK we take the Mr. Pink approach to tipping.
During the UK lockdowns, I tipped all the front line workers where I could. That’s it.
I’m not tipping someone as compensation for doing their job, that’s what their employer is for.
But you see, this approach is an international problem on both sides of the tipping argument. Are you against tipping and think the worker should be compensated by their employer? That’s great. Do you believe in this philosophy enough to actually seek out politicians who will make sure employers compensate the workers? All around the world, it seems that nobody cares that much about workers when it’s time to vote. Workers in countries where tipping is not customary earn a crappy salary that does not allow them to live without depending on the kindness of their families. Good luck making yourself independent of your parents on a typical salary a waiter earns in Spain, for example. Workers in the USA where tipping is all the rage don’t do much better. You can work in the retail industry and earn minimum wage, or sometimes slightly higher than minimum wage and live out of your car or live with your parents. You can work at a restaurant and depend on tips and live out of your car. You can be a visiting professor of sociology at whatever university and live out of your car. In Spain, you can have a PhD and ghost write for full professors and live out of your car or you can wait tables and not have a car and live with your parents. I mean, really. There is no difference in the end. Wages from work are low all around the world. They are low in democratic countries because people care more about some other issue and not about the people who bring food to their table at a restaurant, no matter what kind of tipping culture is predominant in that democratic country.
I tip for exceptional service. If someone goes above and beyond what’s required of them, I leave a tip. I also tip if I make their lives more difficult that they should have been.
Dealing with our general public, during COVID definitely counts as both. Particularly with the number of people who couldn’t figure out how to wear a mask. At the same time, I also didn’t go out much during the pandemic, mostly due to the whole pandemic thing going on.
What is exceptional service? How is it different from bad service? As an introverted north european I never figured this out myself. For me good service means I don’t need to wait too long for my food/get the check but other than that I want to be left alone. I imagine I would find “good service” quite uncomfortable.
It’s generally context and individual specific. E.g. a bed delivery driver is paid to get it to your door. If they also lug it up the stairs to the loft room, that is exceptional service.
Another might be a restaurant team who deal particularly well with a food allergy. E.g. making specific checks of requirements, and going out of their way to make a dish in a safe manner. Rather than just saying it’s not an option.
Have you noticed all take aways have delivery charges in the UK since Covid? I assume it’s because few of us have cash about anymore so the drivers aren’t getting tipped.
Last time I tried to tip a delivery driver im the UK they said they can’t take it…
Given we pay for delivery though and it’s difficult to see what a driver could do above and beyond that isn’t just ‘doing their job’ that’s probably a good thing, provided they’re getting a decent amount of it.
It’s about how fast it got there for me in the past, which I know isn’t always in their control, but there needs to be some criteria.
It used to be quite the opposite. Tipping was big in Europe but not in the US.
That changed with Prohibition. When alcohol was banned, there was suddenly a large whole in the bottom line of restaurants across the US. They turned to having a tipped staff to stay open.
Sadly, when it was repealed, tipping stayed. It was since inflated from 10% to 15% to now over 20%.
Some have tried to get rid of it, but sadly it hasn’t worked.
It dates back further than that. It was a great way to not pay recently freed slaves as much as white people during the Jim Crow south.
It stopped being a cultural thing decades ago. Now it’s about about companies not paying employees a living wage and America’s right wing constantly blocking legislation that would force employers to pay people enough to have shelter and food.
It actually started as an economic thing too, because businesses during the great depression weren’t able to consistently pay living wages.
It was originally a way to be able to hire black people and not pay them
It started much earlier than that and has roots in racism. https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/
After the Constitution was amended in the wake of the Civil War, slavery was ended as an institution but those who were freed from bondage were still limited in their choices. Many who did not end up sharecropping worked in menial positions, such as servants, waiters, barbers and railroad porters. These were pretty much the only occupations available to them. For restaurant workers and railroad porters, there was a catch: many employers would not actually pay these workers, under the condition that guests would offer a small tip instead.
Disliking tipping is no reason to screw hardworking people over. Tipping is a fact of life, even if you think it’s dumb.
I don’t see them saying they don’t tip, but arguing against the system in place. Which are two separate things.
But it doesn’t have to be if the employers pay how they should
Sure but until they do a lot of those people need tips to get by and it’s far from as easy as “just get a different job”
Source: used to be one such person
With unemployment numbers so low right now, this is actually the time to “just get another job”. In the USA, at least.
Have you tried?
What other job do you get when your experience is tipped work? Or do you go to school to take on debt that will set you back for a long time because the education system is shot too.
Until they do? When is that going to be? When US government makes tipping illegal?
This is a fairly good bellwether to see who’s progressive and who’s a champagne socialist.
Or, employers could pay their workers better.
Novel thought, right?
And you think not tipping your server today, before they get those wages, will make that happen?
Sorry, Mr. Pink. Being an asshole to your server does not make you somehow pro-worker.
Yes. By not showing up at all.
Ultimately, we need to tip people in the short term to keep them afloat until we can work with them in the long term to get America to the standard that most of the rest of the world takes, where tipping is a special case scenario only for exceptionally good work, and never to be needed or expected.
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It really doesn’t have to be a “fact of life”, and it isn’t in many places, such as Australia and England – nations with very similar degrees of economic prosperity, and very similar cultures, to the USA.
People have tried and failed. But my point is, until that time you have to tip. I don’t care for people that don’t tip while arguing they are doing their server a favor. It is a disingenuous attempt to be cheap. A server’s paycheck should not be held hostage to a a war on tipping culture.
I’m always torn on this. I want to tip to help someone earn a living, but if enough of us stopped tipping employees would leave unless they were paid more. It does feel like adding suffering to the wrong people, but if out created change it would be nice eventually
A better solution is to flat out not patronize businesses that do tips
I like eating food though :/
There are all manner of grocery stores that sell that
My favorite is restaurant owners being like well if I have to pay them, the food prices will go up. Well if I’m expected to pay 15%-20% on top of what’s priced, why not just make the damn price 20% higher and then I don’t have to cover for your ass.
Because it comes from a history of slavery. Pushing it on to you, the customer, to pay the underpaid employee so the boss man doesn’t have to.
The problem is that not tipping doesn’t punish the people creating the tipping issue, just making the people who are oppressed by it suffer more.
if you’re wanting to protest those businesses, you might wanna start with not buying from them in the first place.
Not always that easy is it, if you want to go out you have to find a place that advertises their no tipping policy. It’s go and don’t tip or stay at home or else take part in a shit system.
No, see if you go and dont tip, you’re still taking part in the shit system, just with a side of hurtin workers. The owners making just as much money and doesnt need to change what he’s doing.
No.
If employees are earning below the minimum wage then the employer has to pay the difference.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/compliance-assistance/handy-reference-guide-flsa#3
So yeah, if anyone’s feeling guilty about not tipping then don’t. This should be a discussion between employees and their employers. Not customers and employees.
If the waiter is only making minimum wage in the U.S., considering what minimum wage is, that makes me feel sorry for them and even more inclined to give them a tip, because no one should have to survive on minimum wage.
Thing people forget is that the employer will just fire the employee for “lack of performance” or some bullshit.
There are virtually no worker protections in the US, and, as consumers, we need to stop feeding the greedy beasts that run restaurants.
And don’t forget, wage theft totals more than all other theft combined: https://www.epi.org/publication/epidemic-wage-theft-costing-workers-hundreds/
not “could” but “are legally obliged to, by federal law”
I would remember that guy, and spit in all his food when he came back.
I would say they’re not dumb enough to go back, but, you know, Trump supporter.
Been a thing for a long time actually. Since before his cult. Religious fucks leave fake bills with Bible versus on them.
Worked in a resort area and some big church group showed up and tipped using money like that. Like a party of 20 people type group.
Everyone started calling around to establishment saying if you get a group of 20 and they all look like Jesus folk tell them to leave.
Is that illegal.
I’m pretty sure there is no legal requirement to tip. However, if wait staff end up below minimum wage after tips their employer is supposed to pay the difference, though this usually doesn’t happen and most people aren’t aware of it. Wage theft is the most common form of theft in the US, and this plays a part in it.
I think they mean is leaving counterfeit money as a payment of service illegal
I’m pretty sure this wouldn’t count as counterfeit. It’s not meant to pass as real money. It’s gag money. You’re not required to tip though, so there’s nothing illegal about not leaving money or leaving something else instead. Obviously knowingly using counterfeit money is illegal regardless, but again this is counterfeit, just a gag.
Assholes get a 25% discount at restaurants.
Assholes should get a tip. Preferably rubbed on their bread
That’s some real fancy toilet paper!
its a cult
That’s kind of insulting to cult leaders bruh. Most cult leaders have some really honed charisma and at least some specific intellectual strengths.
“America I love you but you’re freaking me out.” -The Menzingers
They’re too dumb to realize that it will have the opposite effect. It won’t work like “omg i got an ad for [CANDIDATE X] instead of $20, gonna vote for him!!”
It has nothing to do with advertising and everything to do with showing dominance. While liberals are too afraid to say this or that because it might hurt someone’s feelings, these right wing lunatics have no problems being very bold and in-your-face about their candidate of choice.
What you’re supposed to do with these and the bible verse ones is at least leave a decent tip to go along with this so the server finds it at the end of their shift with their money. Instead, people just leave these pieces of trash.
It’s similar enough to a real bill for the distributors to be charged under 18 U.S. Code § 475 (Imitating US notes for advertising).
I believe if you were to take this to your bank and tell them that someone tipped you this and you just want to check it it’s counterfeit or real, the FBI would suddenly be involved
US Secret Service is in charge of counterfeiting investigations, not the FBI.
It doesn’t look close enough to a real bill. The person on the counter would probably just say they will get someone involved and then throw it away and do nothing.
It doesn’t look close enough to a real bill for the bank/Secret Service to care about. I’ve seen someone charged with counterfeit money when they had the movie money that literally says “This is not real money, it is for cinematic purposes only” on the back. Cops and DAs can fuck you twice over.
A year 2024 bill denomination? Doubtful. Courts have long protected the right of parody money as long as it was clear that it’s not real. And making a bill that doesn’t have a dollar amount on it and is clearly political speech would likely be protected.
Yeah but they are leaving it in place of actual money. IF you found a LEO who wanted to fuck the tippers day up it could probably be used as grounds for an arrest because its being used in place of money. Wether a charge would stick or not would entirely depend on the judge.
Kind of like how walking around with tiny baggies full of baby powder is legal, selling them and claiming its coke isnt. If you try to pass something that looks like money off as money…
I’m sure a LEO with a friendly judge could duck the tippers day up. But cops “don’t vote Democrat” (Jack Reacher quote), and they can in almost every jurisdiction, just pull you over and beat you up if they want to run your day.
And eiize your car and all your money with no due process.
Because the car “did something illegal” or some other bullshit nonsense that civil asset forfeiture permits.
It is remarkably close to a real bill. If not for the numbers being obviously wrong, I can imagine someone mistaking this for a real bill.
Have they ever charged those churchs who hand out chic tracks on fake folded 50s?
I thought at first that’s what this was - one of those stupid Jesus tracts that look like a $20, because apparently, SaViNg YoUr SoUl Is ThE bEsT tIp Of AlL!1!
Those don’t look enough like real money to be illegal. These do.
Funny thing is that this guy hates tipping, but they’re going to vote for the candidate and political party that want to keep service salaries so low that tipping is required to live.
If this person really wanted to kill tipping, they should vote for the other party. Those are the folks seriously talking about solutions that would make it unnecessary.
Assholes like this love tipping culture. It gives them a feeling of power over people they see as lesser.
If you try to explain this they’ll just go on a unhinged tangent about how Trump single handedly saved the service industry. That, or something equally stupid.
Yes, let’s not pretend that these are well-researched positions that make sense. They’re identity statements.
While I do believe the minimum wage is too low and I am wanting it raised, I don’t think raising it will stop restaurants from keeping tipping culture. Unless they implement laws to dissolve tips, it makes no sense financially for restaurants to end tipping. Even landlords are getting in on tipping.
These are the same idiots that will go into a store on Christmas to shop and then rant to the cashier that they shouldn’t be open on Christmas. They refuse to have self awareness.
I find these types don’t hate tipping, they think servers deserve to beg for scraps. They also just don’t think it should be them doing the tipping and act like what they gave you is more valuable than the money.
Wow, this is worthless lol Not tipping is better than this, at least not tipping can’t disappoint you more than this can
I don’t know, it looks like it would make for some good toilet paper.
