Woman: So when you’re not swiping, what do you do?
Men 1-7: It sounds weird, but I’m really into WAR! … Christoph Waltz was sooo creepy as Hans Landa! You have to see it! … so each week both uncredentialled “historians” talk about their favorite times when thousands of men stabbed or shot each other! … and then the good guy took his gun-knife and started prying teeth and slicing ears off the dead guys… literally an entire generation of men was decimated or psychologically damaged… But [Game of Thrones/The Walking Dead/Band of Brothers] is my go-to. What do you watch?
Woman: Mostly cartoons.
More seriously, I’d guess that many, maybe even most people have some level of morbid fascination with the type of violent, high stakes scenarios that people they identify with have been subject to. It’s just kind of weird not to acknowledge that a lot of basically well-adjusted men (I flatter myself that I’m in that group) are into stuff that’s objectively terrifying.
I think people are interested with the extremes of the human experience in general because that’s where the toughest choices and emotions come to light
Dan Carlin??
Exactly
You forgot to mention the Roman Empire
I’m pretty sad Rome got co opted to be like a weird right ideology. I read the Percy Jackson books growing up so I’ve always been fascinated with ancient Greece and Rome.
I’m pretty sad Rome got co opted to be like a weird right ideology
Rome was think with right wing ideology for much of it’s history.
A great deal of our understanding of fascism in the modern area comes from Roman histories
Oppressive military dictatorship that really likes their military is idolized by wannabe oppressive military dictators who really like their millitary? Who’d have thought?
Oh, also the deep ties to cristianity and fascism. Inquisitions and crusades are exactly the legacy they’re after.
I’ll shit talk the Empire all day but the Inquisitions and Crusades aren’t on them.
I suppose that’s fair, but there are a number of alarming things done in the name of the empire, especially after it fell. The whole latin influence on Europe was a net negative in my opinion. However, I can agree that blaming them for what happened later is a bit harsh.
Said oppressive military dictatorship was also way more socialist than anything we have today.
Not sure what the point of linking a Wikipedia page for a basic fact everyone learns in 3rd grade is.
Socialism is at some point on the scale of private property is collectively managed, therefore advancing towards a classless society. A society with slaves, by definition, cannot be socialist.
I’m only interested in the Roman Emperor, Marcus Aurelius because of his meditations. The things he wrote down for just himself to see are some of the most humbling passages I’ve ever come across. The exception to the rule that absolute power corrupts absolutely. A god to his people who paid a peasant to whisper in his ear to remind him he was just a man. Rome experienced a time of peace and prosperity under his rule without needless wars of conquest.
He was a good man and I aspire to be more like him.
My interest in war is that there is nothing higher stakes, it can be a fight for the survival of not just yourself but your family, community, or nation, or even our species if we are talking fiction (or global warming).
So if we were to stereotype the genders, men are typically more interested in death/violence at a humanitary level and women at a personal level.
You go into it thinking that, but then when the deification hits the oscillation, it ends up being about two things: 1) your own ass and 2) your battle buddies you deployed with.
Yeah I wasn’t talking about either scenario from a participatory POV. Moreso speaking to the general interest.
You can be interested in something without wishing for it or waning to participate. I’m sure women who listen to serial killer podcasts don’t want to be featured in one.
I was, but it was more wanting to share something about the experience rather than start a fight about it.
My apologies if it read that way.
Oh yeah, I was just clarifying my original position. I appreciate your insight.
Wow what a polite exchange on an often hot button topic!
Lemmy is wild. It’s like seeing old forums or IRC again.
Definitely adding “when the deification hits the oscillation” to my vernacular.
You didn’t have to call me out like that
deleted by creator
Yeah, I think it’s good.
Look, we’re apes. We like being scared by things when we’re not really in any danger. See roller coasters, scary movies, etc. We’re also fascinated by conflict, when we can watch it from a safe distance. We find weapons interesting. And so-on.
I’m guessing that for a long time, those things have been seen as masculine, and have been geared towards a male audience. If True Crime lets women indulge in that sort of thing while feeling like they belong, that’s great. But, I also hope they start participating in more things that are stereotypically male, like martial arts.
uncredentialled “historians”
Point of order. What credentials do you need to talk about history? Is there, like, a history license I don’t know about? Or are you just talking about a particular degree?
Adventure Time lore is far more complex than any true crime 😤
Also much dark… No Gunter no !
Please forgive me for, whatever I do
When I don’t remember you
🎶 Making your way in the world today takes everything you got 🎶
“When bad things happen, I know you want to believe they are a joke, but sometimes life is scary and dark. That is why we must find the light.”
I literally watched that episode yesterday lol
It’s almost as if people are drawn to and fascinated by taboo topics, and one’s experiences and upbringing determine the relationship with those taboos a person has.
Serial killers disproportionately target women, and women have personal experiences with creepy/dangerous men – it’s not really surprising “true crime” type media is popular with women.
I’ve sat through 2 murder trials and between the testimony and pictures I can confidently say I’m really not interested in the detailed reality of horrific murders.
But to each their own, I guess.
Will don’t leave us hanging like that, did they convict you or are you planning for number 3?
My wife claims its so women can learn patterns to look out for.
My ex-wife claimed it was to learn how to kill me.
Aqua Tefata
Congratulations on your survival and escape!
Still too early to tell.
She might be Canadian, we might never know
Best tip for killing someone is to wait so long after ever interacting with them that no-one would believe you have motive. That’s also the best tip for not following through, as its really difficult to hold onto a grudge for so long under changing circumstances.
TL;DR: Yes, its too early to tell.
Aka, I learned how to detect signs about criminals when being verbally told about those signs up front after learning about them in huge investigations from serial killers who were caught…
Not even the 2,100 estimated serial killers that aren’t caught…
Simple fact is if someone wants to lie to you, more than likely you’ll believe it lol. Just one of the many things we have to believe to keep society running and ourselves from freaking out daily.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_impression_(psychology)
the only patterns to look out for are giving people your trust.
Trust no one, and nothing. That is your best chance.
Beyond that, engage in excessive paranoia. You probably shouldn’t do that, and should just establish a methodology of behavior that minimizes potential impact instead (i.e. dont do something that is likely to get you killed)
Yeah, I’m a woman fascinated by true crime. Watching/listening/reading about it just helps me to feel more… aware of how shit can go down. For example, a couple was murdered after a man snuck in behind their car as they pulled into their garage. He was caught on servalience camera, dressed in all black with his face covered. You can watch him very clearly as he easily slips in before the garage door closes. Once that door closed, that couple were goners.
You bet your ass I make damn sure no one has snuck into my garage before I close the door.
Like, obviously you’ll never be able to catch everything, or be so watchful that nothing ever happens to you, but I just feel a lot better knowing what to look out for.
I also love watching interrogation breakdowns, because if I’m ever in a situation where I’m being interrogated, I want to make damn sure I know how to protect myself.
So basically yeah, your wife is correct.
as for interrogations, literally just don’t talk to the police, you aren’t legally required to do so, at least here in america you aren’t.
You kind of do though.
You have to actively implement your fifth amendment, right.
In plane clear, articulate language.
One guy said “I want my lawyer, dog.” and the judge rule that that didn’t count.
The police are not your friends, they are people that you should see to interact with as little as humanly possible in your life.
The cops are not coming to you as friends. Ever!!!
I’m not going to say that your neighbor who happens to be a cop is the same as this.
Personally, I would treat them as such, with respect and distance, but your situation may be different.
Just remember, Neighbor Frank and Officer Hernandez are very different people.
But anytime they’re in uniform for sure, they are not your friends.
Even if you call them, they are still trained to assume that you might be the suspect, and to be suspicious of everyone.
this tbh. As for the guy that said he wanted his lawyer, im guessing he continued to talk to the police? There’s his problem. Don’t talk to them. Simple as.
I don’t know, probably though.
Like, if you’re going to say the phrase, I want my lawyer dog, you’re probably gonna keep on talking to the police
Yeah, it’s easy to say it, but not so easy in practice, especially when they can lie to your face.
i guess it depends? But honestly it’s not that hard. You can literally just ignore them. Or you can ask to leave, or you can ask for a lawyer. You have options.
Just like everything else. It’s easy when it’s not happening to you.
unless they’re beating you and torturing you, which is not something they’re allowed to do here. You’d have to be pretty stupid to miss that opportunity.
Women are obsessed with true crime because we feel vulnerable, and so learning about it helps to hone our instincts to avoid dangerous situations. There’s almost always some warning sign that people ignored and they ended up getting murdered. There’s nothing wrong with true crime used as a cautionary tale. Are children sick because they read fairy tales about wolves eating grandmothers or witches cooking and eating children? Of course not. It’s the same thing.
You try to learn how to read people by watching true crime TV shows?
That’s really counterproductive.
Well she’s right about one thing, and that’s that true crime is about as realistic and useful as fairy tales lol.
Like come on, let’s be real: We watch true crime out of morbid curiosity and because the shows are entertaining. That’s fine! IDK why some people try to launder their interest in true crime as some sort of “research”.
Because no matter what you like and for whatever reason you will always get shit on both here on the internet and IRL. So we’ve all normalized having to defend our opinions.
No, you learn to recognize red flags from real life examples and make the right choices if you’re ever in that situation.
You’re learning red flags from a dramatization of a real situation used to sell advertising. Do you think it really reflects things you should use to judge people and situations?
Not all true crime are dramatizations… there are a million YouTube shows out there that show you the exact footage, go over the exact details, etc…
Shoutout to That Chapter!
Do you also do medical research on Facebook?
Are children sick because they read fairy tales about wolves eating grandmothers or witches cooking and eating children? Of course not. It’s the same thing.
Tbf, kids don’t normally seek out those stories. They were created by adults to scare children.
They wouldn’t be so popular if kids didn’t like them.
They aren’t popular though. Modern kids don’t want to hear Hansel and Gretel, they want to watch Bluey. Because what kid wants to hear about a couple of German kids getting lured by a cannibal and eaten?
How the hell is bluey so universally liked by kids tho what is the illusive secret sauce to it that the kids can’t resist
It’s a colourful dog, of course kids like watching it. Every generation has a colourful dog.
Nuclear family does wonders
Seriously when will they finally cut the filler and make that bomb that they have been teasing.
They’re popular because scary stories are a very effective method of getting children to obey. Just look at religion.
I think it helps separate you from the victims. If you feel that you wouldn’t have made the same mistakes as the people who went and got murdered, then it feels a lot less like something that might happen to you.
As long you don’t get hyper sensitive to the signs. You could end up overthinking any little sign when it could mean nothing.
Isn’t this the opening line from “Only murders in the building”?
Is it? Neat! Good show, but it’s been awhile since I saw it last.
Something something women are taught to hold keys between each finger just to walk out to their own car at night.
Meanwhile dudes: gonna walk to the store and get some ice cream at midnight yum yum.
ME: I say… take me out.
I always kinda wondered whether or not holding keys between your fingers would actually do anything if you punched someone, beyond just make them even more mad, especially as most people are not really trained in how to properly punch someone. I get the sense that a lot of other forms of self-defense would probably be better than that.
Maybe but keys are already convenient and no training. it’s about immediate options of a weapon. Still : the take away is that women have to think about these things a lot more than men which is very fucked up. So maybe give women a break if they are gonna be interested in something that eats up their existence this much as a form of anxiety. They wanna be safe. They want to understand the whale in their life. Can’t blame a person for that.
Lol. Hey, you know women aren’t allowed to have an opinion about why they like a TV show without being subjected to a bunch of patronizing comments. /s
But I think that’s a a good take, I’ve always wondered why people like true crime so much.
Same. It makes sense in it providing a sense of control over the potential situation.
How someone else can just come in and say your personal reaction to something is wrong seems pretty disrespectful.
They can have a different takeaway, but that does not make your opinion invalid.
One thing i’ve learned over time, is that there is always a “warning sign” but often times in hindsight, that becomes obvious.
Most of the time you should assume the worst from everyone in every possible situation if you want to stay safe. The only common denominator here is people trusting other people enough to be put in bad situations. (yes i realize not everything is like that, but that doesn’t apply in this context so give me that one for free)
Nice username.
It’s ok to enjoy weird media, but if you’re using sensationalist narrations about very fringe cases to make generalizations about what you may or may not find in real life, you have a problem. If it makes you feel any better, most humans are generally dumb enough to fall for it from time to time, but you should still strive to do better.
Except this is a very real thing? It’s funny because there’s truth here.
Just reading through it reminded me of just last week visiting my mother and my brothers: my mom and my sister in law went on and on about the crazy ones they listened to recently.
Not judging here, but from my time on dating sites over the last decade I can offer two observations as well: a very large percentage of women seem to be literally obsessed with dogs to the point it’s the first thing mentioned on their profile, and this true crime thing is absolutely real. Nothing wrong with it, just like girls complain that every guy holds up a fish in their photos lol it’s probably a reel thing (sorry, dumb pun) but just because I dont do it doesn’t mean it isn’t overwhelming present.
I’m gonna be honest: I made this comment in response to the people in the rest of the thread claiming they used these true crime shows to “learn to look for red flags”, but if it makes you reconsider if the message of any other media is correct, I’m still fine with the result.
I fell into the true crime podcast hole once. I’m never climbing back in again.
Why, and why?
Because I needed something to listen to and it sounded interesting, especially the idea of getting inside the mind of the killer. And the other why is essentially it got depressing, experiencing the horrors of humanity, and so I stopped.
We do but I also love cartoons
all women, is that you?
Hmmmm…I did say i like cartoons… checks. Yup. I did own that one possessively. So nope. The person you’re looking for is not here.
I dunno. Vwoman, giving an opinion…I think that qualifies as “all women” on the internet. Sorry, I know, heavy is the head.
So just stating I like comics or me acknowledging I’m a woman? I’m apologizing for none of this. Go find yourself a real reason to pick a fight.
woah there. It was very clearly a joke about how women sharing their opinions on the internet is usually used against women and portrayed as “women are saying…” The internet has a bad problem with generalizing and painting all women as a monolith. That was the joke. I thought it was clear, but maybe not.
I’m a woman. I understood it as a joke. You’re okay.
It could easily be read as sarcastic. In normal times, I don’t think that interpretation would be common, but in the internet of today, the toxicity is just so high it’s often the correct interpretation.
i tend not to dig into serial killer shit too much, because i feel just a little too comfortable with it.
I think this makes me functionally every womans biggest nightmare. But also a decent colleague.
I still dont know how to feel about this fact.
Well slap tits on me and call me a lady because I am a huge fan of true crime. I read in cold blood for a high school project and never looked back.
But then I’ve been into horror since childhood as well so it’s not really a huge leap either.
You know I find this to kind of be a somewhat depressing stereotype. Depressing both in the fact that these works are clearly marketed towards women as a sort of, precautionary measure against the somewhat justified paranoia, right, and the fact that this paranoia is somewhat justified is also depressing.
But it’s also depressing in that I’m pretty sure it’s not actually going to do anything to help you prevent yourself from being serially murdered, especially as I’m pretty sure serial murderers aren’t all that common. Most of these things are going to focus on your much less likely scenarios, and are going to just flood people with a sort of paranoid delusion that everyone is out to get them at all times. Which is kind of a hellish way to live your life.
I’m also not sure there’s realistically a chance most people have of catching a committed serial murderer. It’s sort of like how, the safest option for a cop to engage in, most times, is just to shoot everyone all the time, because anyone could be carrying a gun on them, and if they’re carrying a gun, then the people who win gunfights most of the time are the people who shoot first. It is very hard to protect against bad faith behavior, and against overwhelming opposing force. Or even mildly whelming force, if you’re just not really expecting it. Just as it is relatively hard for a committed, high profile criminal to escape justice for a longer period of time (especially if the cops have a good incentive to catch the perp, like, they’re a cop-killer, or a terrorist, or what have you), it is extremely hard to ensure that you’re not just gonna get taken advantage of by someone.
That’s not really to dissuade people from taking BJJ classes, or carrying pepper spray, or a whistle, or a gun on you, though, those things can still be effective and are pretty easy to integrate into your daily life. Especially in the case of BJJ, that might just be good exercise, but maybe the jury’s still out on whether or not your joints will be completely destroyed by the age of 50.
So, I think most people would probably be better served by understanding more thoroughly the warning signs of, say, a just straight up abusive or emotionally manipulative relationship, right, more common crimes, that don’t involve serial killers or the extreme and marketable violence featured in true crime. But then, as we’ve seen with the buzzwordification of “gaslighting”, and things of this nature, you can’t really be so sure that said education wouldn’t just be co-opted and used by the abusers themselves into more easily laundering their behavior. It’s probably still beneficial, in that if you know the identifying features of a duck, it’s harder for a duck to pose as not-a-duck, even if the duck knows what a duck is, right, but, yeah, it still has problems.
Then maybe the answer lies in, say, some sort of unironic self-help or therapeutic content, right, because that helps everyone, including potential abusers, but then that can be just as vulnerable to abuse. Not necessarily from abusers, but abuse from the financial nature of said content, which will be likely to provide easy solutions and shitty information just to make a quick buck, ime.
I’d still criticize all of this shit, this genre, on the basis of what I’ve all said, right, and I’d also criticize it in the format and execution of it’s entertainment, but I also think, right, we’re probably all better off if we just remain conscious of why we’re actually engaging with entertainment, instead of trying to come up with some sort of justification which doesn’t really pass the reality test. It’s mostly escapism. The pretense of reality is what everything uses to make itself more legitimate. That’s why men watch war history videos, and videos on guns that convince them they need to become right wing NRA wingnut prepper guys. Pretense of reality. As the other commenters have pointed out, there are parallels, here.
My wife is heavily into police procedurals, the more bizarre and gory the better. I’m thinking of instituting a ‘no sex murder at the dinner table’ rule.
Sexist garbage. I’m a woman and i would run a mile from anyone into true crime. It’s creepy as hell.
All of my girlfriends are into true crime and I just don’t get it. I tried it out, got sad, decided it wasn’t for me.
question, out of curiosity. Because i just can’t help but get myself killed here (the irony i know)
Who are those people you would run from? Men, Women? Anybody period?
Anybody. I also hate horror movies. I know humans are violent assholes, i don’t understand the enjoyment people get out of it.
So they like cartoons with lots of murder?
