Lacy said the family also reported that after the shooting, the family was forced out of the home while officers “rummaged through their house looking for any justification for shooting and killing Ryan”.
Not a good look.
They don’t care how bad it looks cause they get away with it
Yet it happens every fucking time. 😡
Saw body cam footage like that once. Guy is on the ground bleeding out and the cop is searching the car for the gun that will justify it. Guy was bleeding out because when asked for his ID reached for his wallet
Probably should go watch the actual video: https://dailycaller.com/2024/03/11/ryan-gainer-video-deputy-fatally-shooting-15-year-old-boy-autism/?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral
He’s told to drop it, and literally chases the officer out of the house with it trying to kill him. Bodycam from 2 angles.
Edit: Ok, I read the article. Yeah, him charging at the cop with that tool was a really bad move. I still think the situation could have been handled differently. Could have.
Tasers, batons, or just run away. Diffuse the situation. Imagine a judge saying “You charged against a cop with a gardening tool? Sentence to DEATH!”
The boy didn’t get a fair trial. He was murdered with no justification.
That’s basically what their elected prosecutor will say, I’ve seen it a lot. They’ll say “he has a weapon and was committing a crime, so the shooting was justified.” That’s what they said when my local pd shot a kid in the back when he was running away. He hadn’t done anything but run away and was killed.
He was murdered, if you shoot someone in the back while they are fleeing you are a murderer.
The cop that shot him is a murderer and a coward.
Yeah, and the states attorney started her excuses with “he was committing a crime” as if execution is the correct answer for running away from police.
In this case it was the police that was fleeing and the person getting shot was chasing him with a raised gardening hoe. He could have shot him in the house the first moment he started approaching him. He didn’t. He told him to stop or they’ll shoot. He didn’t stop so the police started running away in order to avoid shooting him. He followed. Didn’t leave them much choice.
Didn’t leave them much choice.
Wrong. The murderer chose to shoot and kill the kid. That was the choice they made.
They could have…just run away to a safe distance. But they chose to shoot and murder the kid.
Could have tried to disarm them. Too risky? Run away.
Stop making excuses for poorly trained thugs with guns killing unarmed citizens.
The cop was literally running away when he shot him.
He also could have just used the taser instead of the gun. The boy was, what, 150lbs?
Being black adds 150 lbs of pure muscle and testosterone-fueled rage. Poor cop was basically facing a sword wielding grizzly bear.
/s
Edit: Ok, I read the article. Yeah, him charging at the cop with that tool was a really bad move. I still think the situation could have been handled differently. Could have.
Police in other countries are constantly able to non-lethally subdue people wielding knives. Do not normalize this reaction.
There was a video posted on reddit, where a cop got stabbed in the neck and died because he was slow to shoot, batons are worthless
lol batons aren’t worthless.
I’ll believe you once you manage to out-fence an assailant with a sharp-edged weapon with your worthy baton
As a father of a child with Autism I feel I am more than adequately equipped to respond to this.
I don’t think many, if any, neurotypical people understand how Autism can impact a person’s ability to process the world in a way that is deemed “normal”. This child may not be verbal, may have aggression issues, may have a learning disability, etc.
The last thing that should have happened is someone pulling a gun.
I cry thinking something like this could happen with my son. All it takes is one bad interaction with someone who has absolutely no experience with Autism and this can happen.
For anyone reading this, do yourself a favour. Volunteer with autistic people. It could be at school or in the community but you all need to learn that Autism does not look like the doctor in The Good Doctor.
He was attacking people and hurting people already. This isn’t a situation where he was irritated and the corner and someone provoked him, he was already violent when the officer’s arrived.
I cry thinking something like this could happen with my son.
Gotta prepare him for when he is antagonized
My nephew is autistic, ODD and goes violent when going overboard
The more he is antagonized young, the better he learns how to deal with it. He is getting much better at understanding himself and controlling himself in situations he wouldn’t have a few years ago
In Canada (afaik) cops rarely kill anyone who is not wielding a gun, this includes people out of their minds on drugs wielding knives. They are usually able to disarm and subdue the suspect by non-lethal means.
The idea that a 15 year old kid running at a cop should be shot on sight is absolutely absurd and only normalized in the US, please reconsider your perspective.
All that said cops still fucking suck in Canada and have a history of being racists and abusive.
… So why didn’t the officers just fucking leave the house?! There’s no reason for them to stand their ground here. Retreat to safety and call for a crisis counselor and psychiatrist to come help. Call the boy’s parents.
Fragile masculinity is why those pussy ass cops shot a kid. I hope it tortures them for the rest of their days. And I hope whenever they see a kid with autism from here on out, they’re forced to realize what they’ve done.
The cop was literally running from the kid, while the kid was swinging his weapon. The cop certainly wasn’t “standing his ground”.
The San Bernardino county sheriff’s department was responding to a 911 call on Saturday from a family reporting that a boy, identified as Ryan Gainer, was attacking his family at their home
If you watch the actual video the sheriff goes into the house to find him and the teenager comes charging out trying to attack him. The officer did leave, he fled while telling him to stop. He didn’t stop and continued to chase him with the weapon and he was shot.
That’s why they shouldn’t call the cops when a person of color is involved. The police will just kill them.
As ADA Krause said in the Rittenhouse trial said, “We all take a beating sometimes.”
He’s also autistic and a pig shouting at him probably didn’t even register as anything but a threat.
There are great questions as to whether it was appropriate to use deadly force against a 15-year-old autistic kid who was having an episode,
Ooh, I can answer this one:
No
I’ll write that down as a “maybe”.
To the cops? Yes.
Mental illness is always a license for them to kill, it happens ridiculously often even by statistical count.
Something about unexpected responses and unpredictable reactions to shouting and gun waving that give the pigs an excuse to shoot.
Remember that deaf guy that was killed because of his whittling knife? I don’t think the cop suffered any consequences except a paid vacation and an innocent and confused life was lost and the world turns on.
I didn’t even have to open the article to see the boy’s skin color. And I’m not remotely shocked.
Officer was backing away from the kid, and turned to run away from him. The officer was actively retreating from the attack at the time the shots were fired.
Two officers were present. It is not clear from the video who fired the shots. It is very clear, however, that the kid was actively attacking the officer.
Yea sadly the kid was an aggressor here
But the cops should be using tazers or something non-lethal to deal with this kinda altercation
FYI, tazers aren’t “non-lethal.”
Less lethal than a gun shot
Why not use tranquilizers? Field biologists use them to check up on wild animals, why can’t they use them on “criminals”?
Tranquilizers aren’t instant like they show on TV, most take 20-30 minutes to kick in.
Hoes are.
Wasn’t there a case some year back where a police officer was attacked and they mistakenly grabbed their gun instead of their tazer due to panic? The details are murky.
But the cops should be using tazers or something non-lethal to deal with this kinda altercation
Something non-lethal… Like the “bare hands” they attempted to use on their arrival?
Tazers fail. A lot. You have one shot and if one of the two barbs don’t both go in for a good connection it doesn’t work. It’s not something anyone would want to count on in a situation where you or someone else is being attacked.
If you have multiple cops at the scene though, you can easily have one go through the tool kit using tazer, pepper spray, etc, while the other one covers them with a gun.
But that takes like actual thinking and training.
while the other one covers them with a gun.
Yes, exactly. They work through every less-lethal option they have, with an officer ready to escalate to lethal if the subject ever puts someone at imminent risk of death or grievous bodily harm.
If, for example, an atttacker is ever close enough and aggressive enough to attempt to stick a shovel in someone’s head and neck, a covering officer can immediately stop the attack with lethal force.
So, officers could start with a less-lethal option, like a baton, or tazer, or bare hands, and only escalate to lethal force if the situation actually calls for it.
Still trying to ignore everything else about the situation I see.
That’s not as simple as it sounds. Even if they somehow knew exactly what has happening and had pre-arranged a plan of action, by the time they knew the taser has failed, the partner is as likely to shoot the other officer as the assailant.
Tasers simply aren’t effective in these situations.
Pre-arranged plans… Hmmm like Standard Operating Procedures? Or Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures?
They didn’t need a football pre game huddle. It’s as simple as one guy saying “cover me” while they choose a less lethal option. This is literally why they train. Why we give them so much money.
And just because you deploy a Taser does not mean you stop creating space. Likewise, there is no rule that the partner needs to take a shot from 10 meters away. Standard infantry practice for an engaged buddy is to get right up in there and shoot where you can be sure of it. Just make sure you call the shot so your buddy knows to turn away. Which is all also training.
These guys ran straight into an unknown situation and someone died because of it.
In the video, what was the time frame from first seeing the kid to the kid attacking him with the weapon?
You didn’t watch the video. You are commenting based on an article written by someone with less knowledge and experience than you.
To safely employ a tazer in this situation, the cop would have needed body armor completely covering his head, neck, torso, arms, groin, and legs. Wearing anything less than full riot gear, that attack posed an imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm. Striking the officer’s head or neck with a bladed weapon could destroy an eye, sever the carotid artery, or cause a wide variety of maiming or permanently disfiguring injuries.
Employment of a pain compliance method is only feasible once that threat has been stopped, delayed, or mitigated.
Neither of the officers present appeared to have had any opportunity to use a tazer or less-lethal device to stop the attack.
He was 15. You’re saying that two trained and experienced police officers couldn’t deal with a 15 year old boy. Don’t make me laugh. “Bladed weapon”? Was the kid a samurai?
They deal with hardened criminals and meth labs in San Bernardino. But a confused 15 year old was their arch nemesis? No one is going to believe that and they better not try to convince a jury with that story. Like the acorn guy, these cops are going to be laughed off the force.
Got it. You didn’t watch the footage.
You sound like all the cowardly cops. If you can’t handle a non lethal situation like this with your tazer: find another job.
I see. And what training, instruction, or other expertise do you have to support your assertion that this was a “non lethal situation”?
I believe that I could cause a permanently disfiguring, debilitating, or lethal injury with any of the long-handled tools in my shed. I believe if a racist teenager swung one of these tools at a black man, you, too, would consider it to have been a use of lethal force.
I think a reasonable person facing a 15-year-old attempting to strike them with any of my gardening equipment would reasonably fear a threat of death or grievous bodily harm.
I reject your characterization of this as a “non lethal situation”.
I don’t know about him but I was an Infantryman who invaded Iraq. And no. You’re wrong. You don’t just shoot kids clearly having a mental health episode. Especially with multiple cops present. You only need one designated shooter while everyone else works the problem.
Also, pain compliance is to neutralize threats. If there is no threat then you’re just torturing them. Where I’m from that’s called a war crime.
Surely we’re holding our police to a higher standard than a 19 year old scared shitless in a warzone? Right?
You don’t just shoot kids clearly having a mental health episode.
Kid tried to jam a shovel in someone’s neck. That’s not a “mental health episode”. That’s an imminent deadly threat.
There is no ROE that prohibits anyone from using lethal force in that situation. Never has been. Never will be.
Too bad there aren’t things cops could do other than murder when this sort of thing happens.
If only a cop had literally any other option to stop someone with a garden implement other than a gun.
Too bad guns are the only option to stop people…
Sensationalist bullshit title from the guardian. Typical now. You can’t just get unbiased news in many places. They all have to push an agenda.
15 yo with a hoe, vs. 2 “trained”, “fit” men with weapons specifically designed to kill instantly with a twitch of a finger.
Everywhere else in the world the kid would get a slap on the wrist, parents penalised, settled and sorted.
Slap on the wrist?
He spent the day trying to kill everyone around him, and you think he deserves a slap on the wrist?
Parents penalized? Theit kid tries to kill them, and you’re going to penalize them? The victims?
Your value system is completely out of whack. Kid is a threat to himself and others, and should have been locked up. Whether as a patient in a psychological institution or an inmate in a correctional facility is an open question, but separation from society and professional supervision is not.
Yes, lock him up, that’ll fix him! Fucking put him in a solitary, that does wonders to mental stability, scientifically proven!
Of course he needs to be institutionalised, but I bet to fuck that this didn’t just happened out of thin air and parents were neglecting symptoms. I bet they didn’t want to / couldn’t deal with it because of the insane (no pun) costs associated with it. (only in the USA, of course)
Either way, shooting down an underage with a sharp stick is barbaric and medieval.
Police in other countries are constantly able to non-lethally subdue people wielding knives. Do not normalize this reaction.
Another child murdered.
I will not shed a single tear for when cops get shot and killed.
US cops really have stored up an incredible amount of badwill, haven’t they? Now, I can’t help but see Nolan’s Batman film (whichever the one is with cops in tunnels), Brooklyn 99 and others as straight up copaganda. Just zero sympathy. The balance will shift at some point, it has to.
To be fair Brooklyn 99 dunks on cops. Like a lot.
Final. season was really interesting I that regard. Real cop propaganda is The Rookie. It is shameless.
The final season was less humorous about it. But even in the earlier seasons, the vast majority of cops outside of the 99 are incompetent, corrupt, or both. Comparatively, Wuntch is one of the least bad in the force.
Blue Bloods is the worst of them. Flat out abusing people in custody followed by a friendly family Sunday dinner.
Law & Order
3rd Batman movie, the one that made even less sense than a superhero movie normally makes.
The entire plan depends on a fusion reactor acting like a fission bomb that Bane didn’t even know was down there, Blackgate being moved within city limits after the events of the second movie for no clear reason, and a letter that again no one knew existed while the plan was being carried out.
Also if he broke Batman’s back why not just kill him? Why give him a chance to escape?
Also if he broke Batman’s back why not just kill him? Why give him a chance to escape?
He explains that he wants batman to watch his city deteriorate to chaos or whatever.
By putting him in an underground prison where he can’t see it happening?
Also why? In the comics Bane removed Batman because he was a threat not because of a personal grievance.
He has a TV showing him Gotham news or some shit. idc what happens in the comic. I’m not defending the movie just telling you what I remember from watching this movie like 10 years ago. There’s a lot of stupid shit in the movie but it’s made abundantly clear why he’s alive and in prison.
Most depictions of LE in action movies are copoganda. I mean, shit: the Dirty Harry/ Legal Weapon trope of cops needing to sidestep the rules is so fucked when you think about it
Not really. It’s just on these forums.
As soon as you go out into the real world, you’ll see cops are people too and have about the same amount of respect as everyone else.
First you need to go out into the real world, though.
Rapists are people, too. Dictators are people, too. Murderers are people, too.
I thought cops were pigs, though?
Well, the real world is where these cops are murdering children. And it’s in the real world that we get to experience their maliciousness directly.
Maybe you should stick to your fantasy land where cops aren’t hair trigger shooting people with basic tools?
I had no hatred of police until I worked with/around them for the better part of a decade. Used to go around to different places training them on a new methodology of data entry, and had them come to us after out department got the space. Trained hundreds of departments of all types of cops, trained hundreds of different facilities of COs. Not a single time, in the 1-3 day training periods, did I come away without hearing them brag about, or do, some awful shit. After the 50th or so department, where police fist bumped, and cajoled each other over violating people’s rights, I just couldn’t stand them anymore. They will sit around bouncing ways of violating people’s rights that will still provide them the protection of immunity. They trade pointers on the best ways to trump up charges against people they know aren’t breaking the law, but they don’t like. The moment the room was all male, or all the x minority was out of ear shot, the bigotry came out. At first I tried reporting it. Got told that since I am a white dude they didn’t think I was gonna care, and if I pushed this issue it was only going to be bad for me.
This stuff affects their personal lives too. It is very common for cops to slowly lose anyone out of their life that isn’t a cop, or directly related to one. They hang out in bars where they have driven off pretty much everyone but other cops, their social events tend to be nothing but other cops and their families. There are whole subdivisions of domestic violence professionals that deal only with the families of police. They isolate themselves with their behavior and then blame everyone else for hating cops. Meanwhile many of the people who stopped hanging around them will tell you it’s because they are paranoid, bigoted, and quick to anger, if not violence.
They also drastically over value the rarest dangers of their jobs. Spend enough time around police and you will hear about how many of them are ambushed and murdered. That is very rare, and most often the result of the cops doing something shady with their position. You very rarely hear them mention how driving all the time, and the recklessness of driving in emergency situations, is actually what kills them most often. While it was starting to gain some traction in the latter days of me working in the justice industry, they also rarely discussed how sitting all day, alone, in their car, caused a myriad of health issues, namely heart disease and other obesity/sedentary related illnesses. No, not worth talking about much if they can’t make themselves the victim.
Policing, in the US, has become a cult of sorts.
How do you constantly and consistently have the most stupid takes on this platform, harderian? I can count on my fingers how many times you made a comment that wasn’t mind bogglingly braindead and/or blatantly wrong. Sheesh.
A cop in my area shot his car with a suspect in it multiple times because an acorn gave him spookies. Also, cops here are widely known to be corrupt and shitty. I’ll just keep on assuming they are incompetent and useless.
Removed by mod
Who watches the watchmen?
I hope you have a gun or know how to fight.
Otherwise you need cops to defend you.
Otherwise you need cops to defend you.
Like the kids in Uvalde?
But they don’t do that. Cops don’t defend people, they look for people to prosecute.
Cops are not for personal defense lmao. Who told you that?
From who? The police?
Cops don’t fucking defend anyone, the fuck are you on about?
Just like Uvalde, right?
Everybody getting a gun was the problem. Now you got paranoid, trigger-happy police who get to keep their pensions after murdering an actual child, and people like you promoting both.
Yeah, if you house gets invaded, you better hope you are in a low population area, and the cops happen to be close to your house, or you will wait at least 20 minutes for them to show. You will have been robbed, or worse, before any police can get to the scene under most conditions.
Fuck rhe police
The only people who have ever assaulted me were cops.
Your supreme court already said that police have no obligation to protect citizens.
I’m just nice so I have a lot of friends. A lot. I’ll stick up for them and they’ll stick up for me. Don’t mess.
Cops killing children dealing with mental help episodes and get rewarded with more funding is something that makes me sick. Body Cam footage shouldn’t depend on if cops feel like releasing it should be sent to an independent party automatically.
This piece of shit couldn’t fight a 15 year old with a hoe? What a coward. One gut punch and the kid would have folded like a lawn chair.
Removed by mod
kids a buck fifty soaking wet, looks all of 5’5 from the pictures, and the family wasn’t helping. Did you kill all of those “15 year old thugs”? seems like we might have heard about you if you were as much of a coward as this cop
Removed by mod
Fascist pig, I hope your murder victims haunt your dreams you tiny dick coward, you’re worse than a criminal.
If I encounter a professional boxer in a bad mood, I would shit my pants. If another professional boxer encounters a professional boxer in a bad mood, they would shrug it off and deal with whatever happens.
Cops get trained. Being prepared for dangerous situations is essentially the core of their fucking job. Apparently, that preparation seems to be often simply “if shit gets ugly, shoot the shit out of whatever frightens you”. Cops should be better at dealing with this than random citizens with a gun.
Removed by mod
wow, guys. Stop everything ! Apparently we live on planet Earth, and as you all know, that means we can’t improve things or point out abuse. Everyone go home ! nothing to see here. After all it’s planet earth
fucking dimwit
Sounds like you got kicked out another comedy club and are butthurt about it. Places of fun and laughter are no place for a fascist pig like you, you’re not welcome anywhere.
Removed by mod
And your safe space is pointing a gun at someones face.
“by a wide variety of men”
I imagine your ability to definitely determine parentage, i’m assuming through observation and research, got you moved to somewhere your observational talents could be better employed ?
No point in wasting that kind of talent on the streets fighting the statistically high percentage of 15 year old thugs and their mothers.
Wow, racism mixed with sexism and slutshaming. you can be really proud of yourself man. go get therapy.
Removed by mod
So if a cop, afflicted with PTSD from shooting teenagers, points a gun at me and I kill him in self-defense… Do you think the criminal justice system will hand-wave it away as easily as this?
So if a cop, afflicted with PTSD from shooting teenagers, points a gun at me and I kill him in self-defense…
The thing is, liberals want to see this as some kind of exercise in fairness. “Oh if can shoot me then I can shoot them!”
No. This is a gang-violence thing. The MS-13 gang member can shoot you because he’s got a gun and years of psychological scarring and a willingness to kill to survive. You can’t shoot the gang member, because all his buddies will show up at your house, hold you down and skin your dog alive while you’re forced to watch, then bust out all your teeth and hang you out to dry as an example.
Cops work the same way.
This. I forget the court ruling, but there was one, that found you are legally allowed to defend yourself against a police officer who is not acting lawfully, up to and including killing the cop… But good luck surviving that long.
… and proving it. In the end he could likely have been in plain cloths, no badge, in a bar after work and could still somehow claim to have announced himself and tried to prevent some bad perceived crime and it would be fine. Or if he got killed they would likely pull out is glorious career and what good cop he was to argue that he MUST have acted rightfully.
Well you’re not a cop and have a gun, so this side is the Internet already thinks you’re a fascist gun nut and belong locked away.
this says more about your subs than anything because i see a lot of socialists on here who cannot wait to tell me about their soviet pistol
Everything openly pro-gun seems to get downvoted to oblivion here, never truly “everyone” but the balance is certainly favors civilian disarmament.
Yeah I don’t like idiots with guns sorry
Does that include police and military, or do you want to abolish those as well?
The police are the last ones that should have guns
No, I don’t know who is an idiot and who isn’t, so less people having guns means less idiots have guns. police and military have vetting and training, regular citizens do not.
Removed by mod
For some reason this is unpopular, but I don’t think a police officer should be allowed to remove their firearm from its holster until actual assault has occurred, unless non-police citizens are in danger.
A cop merely being scared should never be a reason somebody dies.
If you can’t handle the pressure, don’t be a fucking cop.
Yeah but then police would actually have to receive training on de-escalation. Can you imagine paying teachers more? Better to use the traveling drill instructor screaming “SHOOT OR DIE MAGGOT”.
but I don’t think a police officer should be allowed to remove their firearm from its holster until actual assault has occurred, unless non-police citizens are in danger.
This is the norm in many countries. For example anytime a policeman takes out a firearm, they need to file paperwork explaining the encounter, which is suprisingly (or not) a huuge deterrent.
… and I can’t believe I have to add this, but not obeying is almost never a valid reason to just start blasting. If no one is in danger, police have the power of radios, time, reinforcements
Watch a YouTube channel like Police Activity and you’ll see plenty of OIS / body cam videos where if that were the rule there would be a lot of very dead cops.
I have been watching a ton of those channels lately. It’s interesting to see how things go down in the real world without a bunch of annoying editing and interruptions.
There are of course many cases where the cops give somebody a hundred chances to stand down or comply with orders or whatever. But there is probably also a strong bias in choosing the clips. These channels seem to heavily lean towards “criminal’s day went from bad to worse” or the opposite towards “idiot cop tries to arrest innocent person / does not know the law.”
And the reality we have now is a lot of dead citizens who didn’t sign up to a job inherently involving danger. Is that a preferable situation?
You think there would be less dead citizens if cops waited to pull their guns until after assault? Go and watch a OIS channel like Police Activity and come back with a straight face and claim that.
So for context my local PD dealt with a fine gentleman who attacked a security guard in his car dual wielding a hatchet and metal pipe. They spent several hours trying to talk him down before charging him with a shield and arresting him without much further ado. If you guessed he was white you guessed correctly.
complimenting your PD for disarming the situation peacefullycalling your PD racist for not shooting a white Person
Removed by mod
Society failed this boy. More spending on medical research, and care could have prevented this event. But instead we spend way more money on killing more people in other countries. And the medical research could help those who serve in the military as well. But no, must cut those costs as much as posdible.
You forgot to mention how he was murdered.
Reagan closed down so many mental health hospitals specifically to make the streets more dangerous and help justify his militarization of the police.
Let’s list all items that do not look like a gun during a police encounter. I’ll start:
Small puppy Couch Basketball Bucket full of fruit Ice
I can’t think of anymore at the moment. There’s bound to be one or two other items.
No one has claimed it looked like a gun. He was running towards the police with a gardening hoe with a clear intention to hit him. There’s video of it in this thread. This is not an example of a police shooting an innocent person. They shot someone that was attacking them with a lethal weapon.
Billy club, taser, or just a good old Sparta kick to the chest. If lethal force is your first instinct when a child comes at you with a stick, you should in no way be allowed to carry a weapon.
Billy club, taser, or just a good old Sparta kick to the chest.
Wouldn’t a gardening hoe have range/length/blockage on those other weapons, making them ineffective for defense?
Club yeah, taser should be able to reach out and touch him, pepper spray, or just run back and try to talk the kid down since you’re the grown adult, fuckin something from these shitbirds who get a tax break on an MRAP and then cosplay as soldiers with none of the rules. Lethal force should be the last resort, not a reflexive first move. Bad training that is essentially just thin blue line propaganda.
Did you watch the video? The cop literally was running away from the guy that was chasing after him.
The way you defend against a reach weapon is by closing in, not giving space. Unless you have murderous intent.
Unless you have murderous intent.
I think it’s safe to think that would always be the case, if someone comes at you with a weapon.
*child *farm implement
And by you I meant the cop. But I agree we can assume they’ll always have murderous intent. That’s the only thing they’re trained to do. Mental illness? Murder. Acorn fell? Murder. Child having an episode? Murder. Suspect complains they can’t breathe? Murder.
No, tasers and clubs are used when someone is of no threat whatsoever to you (ego disincluded). Guns are for everything else. But also sometimes just for everything /s
Now lets put you there under an attack and give you 4 seconds to decide what to do. I wanna see that Sparta kick.
4 seconds to decide what to do.
Isn’t that what training is for? To train the brain to react appropriately? Why do hair dressers require more training than cops?
The training, what little there is, is the problem in this case unfortunately. All the killology and us vs them horseshit they tell cops leads to precisely this type of situation. Proper training means that is indeed more than enough time to check down an ROE before using lethal force, but when you have a hammer and no one punishes you for hitting the wrong nail…every kid looks like a nail if they’re they wrong socioeconomic type or color and you’re constantly in “fear for your life.”
The point is that it’s quite easy here to observe the video comfortably from your couch at home and with the power of hindsight ponder what they should’ve done instead. The officer being attacked here had no such luxury. This is in no way me saying that there’s zero issues on how policing is done in the US. There’s nuance to these things.
The British have figured this out, why can’t Americans:
London Bridge attack: Darryn Frost on using a narwhal tusk to stop knifeman
Well talk about nuance! you think pulling out a gun and putting some lead into a 15 yr old with a spade was the only option!
I do not hold that belief
Why dont you just admit that you cum in your pants when you see kids murdered? We all know it.
Removed by mod
Why are you attacking me instead of what I’m saying?
Because as a cop you dehumanize yourself and other people, therefore are undeserving of humanity. Ya’ll have been killing black kids long before that time ya’ll dropped C4 explosives on their homes in 1985. Cops are irredeemable fascist pigs, gun-wielding arms of the state, whom the 2nd ammendment was written to permit shooting.
If you can’t handle a teenager with a gardening tool what the fuck can you handle?
Keep in mind: these are supposed to be trained professionals with convenient access to lethal weapons and yet every. god. damn. fucking. time their response is to escalate to the point of killing.
Cops can go fuck themselves. As a profession they’ve proven themselves as capable as a toddler and as dumb, angry, and confused as… I don’t know. I didn’t even think it was possible to be as dumb, angry, and confused as they are.
Why is it important to let everyone know that you are at any given moment about 4 seconds away from killing a child?
The “child” in question is a 15 year old adult sized man.
I was willing to give your argument consideration until this braindead-ass comment. You can fuck right off now. Goddamn boot lickers.
Describing a teenage boy as a child is just pushing a narrative to minimize the potential threath by him. Look at the pictures in the article. If someone his age and size charges at you while wielding a weapon then you should be scared for your life. That is not to say shooting is the optimal solution but you better do something and quick.
Removed by mod
He’s a cop he doesn’t need the films.
No mother fucker. No. This was not a man. This WAS a child. Fuck off with your quotation marks.
Maybe that’s why they give all that cop training for? You speak as if cops are cornered deer.
I’m not speaking of police in general. I’m speaking of this specific event.
Are you aware there are countries all over the world where police don’t resort to shooting children when situations become tense and potentially violent?
Removed by mod
Cops in America also firebombed and dropped C4 on civilians so ya’ll might actually be in competition with not just Sierre Leonean justice but like Islamic terrorists too. In fact, cops have killed more civilians than Islamic terrorists could ever hope for. Cops are the real terrorists of America.
Removed by mod
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing ya’ll bombed Philadelphia.
While super shitty and something a lot of people don’t know about, it also happened so long ago that when you bring it up to people they don’t really take it seriously as an example of anything and will dismiss whatever point you are trying to make. It’s a “historical event” more than it’s something people typically feel is a part of “now”. These days the police operate completely differently, as the person you’re replying to said, what we saw with MOVE was an ad-hoc action that isn’t really an example of typical police behaviors in the contemporary US. They aren’t dropping bombs from helicopters, it’s a weird dumb thing they have done but the world we live in now is roided out SWAT with military surplus and they are doing a pre-dawn raid because they love to LARP and that’s what they train for.
Removed by mod
Yes, I live in one of them. What does that have to do with what I said?
I have been assaulted in a very similar fashion, shovel, around same age, and I was also a teenager. I did not need or want a gun to diffuse the situation. And this officer had grown man strength.
I agree. Using a firearm obviously was not the optimal solution here but not totally unjustified either.
I’m sure had he been unarmed he likely would have dealt with it by other means aswell. One of the big drawbacks of carrying a firearm is the ease of hasty and irreversible decisions.
Removed by mod
people who run at you
One sec, analyzing.
You sure this was what set him off? You sure he didn’t hear an acorn drop?
Either one can apparently trigger police officer Psycho Mode.
Yea, he could have reached for anything other than the gun tho.
I wonder why they don’t shoot in less vital spots like legs or hands in cases like that. Distance seems to be small enough to precise shoot.
Are they undertrained or deliberately escalating?
The training deliberately is to aim for center mass, the police have made no secret to that.
We were told when I was in junior high about 30 years ago by one of our teachers that cops weren’t allowed to attempt non-lethal shots with guns. It either had to do with being sued for intentional maiming or something, or that if a person isn’t endangering you enough that lethal force isn’t necessary, then shooting your gun at all is putting someone at risk of death when it isn’t warranted. We were also told it was better to just run away because cops weren’t allowed to shoot you in the back because you are no longer a threat.
I don’t know if any of that was true then or if it is still true now, but it makes me really sad as an adult that a teacher felt it was important to teach kids about how to not get shot by police.
shoot you in the back because you are no longer a threat.
Some wisdom doesn’t last the course of time
Legs are suuuuuper lethal. Hit the thigh, good chance of obliterating the femoral artery, gives you well less than a minute to stop the bleed before the person loses consciousness and maaaayyyybe a couple of minutes before they are unalived.
And as others have pointed out, they are massively under trained in the US, and the training they receive is basically that every person you interact with has a gun and they want to kill you, so pull your gun ASAP and make your first shot a kill.
The thinking is that a gunshot is always lethal force. If you want to stop the threat most effectively you aim for center mass. So in this case someone is attacking you with a weapon capable of causing death or great bodily harm and legally you can defend yourself with deadly force.
I’ve wondered the same thing. That’s what police often do where I live. Here’s an example.
To my knowledge they’re not exactly instructed to do so but probably choose to do that of their own will likely because killing someone is going to fuck you up wether it was justified or not.
I didn’t realize a gardening hoe was lethal weapon. Maybe to someone without bullet proof vests/heavy protective gear, and alone without backup standing a few feet away.
It is to a weed.
Yep. That’s a garden hoe. Why wouldn’t 2 trained adult officers be able to disarm a 15 year old with one of these without taking his life?
Nah they should totally be capable of disarming a 15 year old. They should be trained in proper force escalation and use of non-lethal force. My point was just that a hoe or an adze is most definitely a lethal weapon. Even just the handle is lethal enough. Nevermind adding on 2-3lbs of steel on the end.
Like, we can talk about the cop making a bad decision while also not minimising the fact that there was a perceived threat to life. Shit, people get murdered by hockey sticks and that’s just like… fiber glass.
There’s no nuance to shooting a 15 year old. Nor is there nuance to some dude charging you with a weapon. Cops should be trained better. He had less than lethal methods to work with.
Is that a garden hoe? Looks like an adze to me, which, if that’s what the kid was wielding… I could see an argument for use of force. An adze is basically a curved hoe with a bevel that can be as sharp as an axe’s, just perpendicular to the handle.
A garden hoe, which is what it looked like in the video, is a flat piece of metal on the end of a handle that would definitely hurt, but not like an adze, and likely wouldn’t be sharpened.
They used to call them shin splitters or something because carpenters back in the day would stand on top of logs and swing the adze down towards their feet to mill that face of the log flat. If you missed, well… Yeah, goodbye toes/shin/etc.
Poor kid must have been planting oak trees. The pig thought they were preventing a future massacre.
ACAB
I saw the body cam, that kid was charging at the cop, he wasn’t just sitting in his front lawn taking care of some flowers. The only real question I have is what was that cop doing there in the first place?
Whatever happened to tasers? I guess it’s not that convenient for the police to have someone capable of suing back, makes one wonder how many cases aren’t able to get the attention this kid is.
The kid’s 15!! a Taser will endanger the cop!! Lord have mercy on this poor cop, good thing there wasn’t an acorn or someone else might have died
Tasers are also quite risky.
What they should have is some proper martial arts training so they can deal with most problems in closer encounters. Fucking shit, they have better equipment and bigger numbers. There should be zero reason to pull a gun unless the other party also has one.
Then maybe escalate to tasers if the other party has a knife and seems to actually starting to attack. If they are just standing there (in a defensive stance or whatever), they should still not be tasered.
Any decent martial arts instructor will tell you that if someone has a weapon, your best bet is to run. You can be a master of any art; if your opponent has a knife, you will get cut, or stabbed. It’s almost impossible to disarm an aggressive attacker who has a knife without getting cut; unless you get lucky, it usually becomes a struggle to control the knife, and the person holding the handle gets cut up far less. Your martial arts training may allow you to eventually dominate the situation, disarm your attacker, and defeat your opponent – but you’re still going to get cut up in the process. If they have a gun, then all your training for is give you a slight chance of not getting shot, maybe, if everything goes perfectly. The only time things go like in the movies is in the movies. And cops aren’t going to be martial arts masters; the best we could hope for for most of them is some basic submission technique, like the shit that murdered George Floyd.
Yes: cops should be getting focused time in de-escalation, but expecting cops to grapple with people, when they have no idea what weapons the person may have concealed in their bodies, or to expect them to perform some Steven Segal weapon disarming is unrealistic.
I agree with you, though; guns are not the answer, and I’m not sure I believe cops should even be armed - although, this is there US, and about 2% of the population goes around daily armed.
The kid had a stick, for Pete’s sake
Wait, they don’t?
In Germany every cop has to learn at least the basics of Jujutsu for exactly this reason. If you go to a jujutsu training as a civilian, usually more than half in the class are cops
They know Donutso. Does that not count?
Having someone with mental health training would have been more appropriate. This kid was autistic and needed to be calmed down by someone who knows how to de-escalate a situation with an autistic person.
Instead he got a cop who only knows how to shoot people.
To a hammer every problem is a nail.
It’s far less dangerous than a gun and ideal for melee opponents because cops can still maintain a certain amount of range. You didn’t read the article, did you? The kid was approaching fast charging with the sharp end of a gardening tool over his head while being told to back off, I think there is no question that he was suffering a manic episode. There were a number of ways to deal with the situation, but before reaching for the gun they could have reached for the taser. Tasers are quite risky, yes, but less so than shooting several bullets in a residential zone at someone.
The comment I answered to was quite generic. If tasers get sold as safer guns, they will also be over-used.
That’s why I explicitly told about escalations and the taser was still part of that escalation chain. And yes, in this particular case, a taser could have been a good approach. Although cops with shield and tonfas might have done the job as well. But to be fair: I don’t expect cops to pull out a shield everytime they leave their car and I don’t think they anticipated such a quick escalation here. If a tonfa alone (by two cops, however) would have done the trick … hard to say. Against a knife: yes. Against that large-ass gardening tool … maybe not.
So yes: in this case, a taser would have been good. In general: I would still prefer first going with far far less risky approaches.
So basically, in the case the thread is about, a taser or insert less risky option here would have been good, got it.
In general anything less than killing or maiming someone should be the utmost priority.
But as I said: also a taser can kill and also tackling someone and pinning them to the ground can. So I would put less focus on the methods and more on the intention. Cops should neither have to act out of fear (that’s what training is for) nor out of pleasure. And some cops just seem to get off on being in control. If cops generally would want the best not just for themselves and other civilians but also for the perpetrators, a lot of the problems would solve themself.
I saw a video from the UK where a guy charged a cop with a knife and the cop just smacked it out of his hand with a baton and put him in handcuffs. Police in the UK only shoot two or three people each year, and the per capita injuries to the police are lower, seems like a better system.
