Can we get a consensus on whether our community should de-federate with servers that host loli? I personally think we should block them, and if that ends up not being the consensus here then I’ll probably sign up on another server. I hope we can all agree to set that boundary though because I like it here and it seems otherwise pretty cool.
For the sake of argument I’ll approach this from a different perspective than everyone else.
Depending on jurisdiction there might be implications in hosting an instance that is federated with instances that host loli. I’m not familiar enough with Canada’s laws and / or le Code Civil du Québec to know if it is considered CSAM, but assuming it is does federating with those communities replicate the media on this instance as well? Would this count as ‘redistributing it’?
Canada laws on CSAM are very strict. even written fictional text are considered csam by law definition. And yes, a known horror novel writer has been charged for csam production in a fiction book. he’s been acquitted tho, fortunately. But that raise an alarm that tell us that cops can arrest you for pretty much anything . If you sculpt a loli into ficello string cheese , that enter the definition of CP in Canada.
there is a part of definition saying: "and other visual representation " which is very vague and broad .
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-163.1.html
If you sculpt a loli into ficello string cheese , that enter the definition of CP in Canada.
First they came for the string cheese, and I did not speak up for I was lactose intolerant
Im afraid to ask, but what is loli? Definitely don’t feel like looking it up if people are that put off by it.
Child porn but with drawing
Depending where you live, it can be “still be legal” because no kid were raped, or illegal. So I am 100% sure blocking the whole instance hosting child-porn. I don’t want to get in trouble with the law for watching the front-page. More important, I don’t want hear that lemmy is used by pedophile to exchange child-porn
Hentai of underage persons. A lot of the time they’ll try to pretend it’s not by dressing it in a fantasy or scifi setting but that’s what it essentially is. I personally see it as cp
So pedo cartoons?
To everyone saying just block the communities:
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I don’t want to have to block communities. In order to know I need to block a community, I have to see content which I feel is worth blocking. That’s fine for most cases but in this case that is not fine (to me personally).
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I don’t necessarily want to associate or interact with people who are fine having a server with loli as their home server. Not to be mean about it but that’s just how I feel flat out.
I think this is an instance where de-federation is the correct course of action.
I don’t want to have to block communities. In order to know I need to block a community,
so you’re puttin the onus on the admins? its the same process with different steps, just block the communities you dont want to see as they pop up. No need to search them out.
EDIT: spelling
I’d like a feature for user specific defederation of communities as you’ve mentioned. Not sure it is possible though.
Sir thats the block button
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Isn’t that the point of decentralization allowing users to pick and choose what they want to see? If you don’t want to see Loli all you have to do is block the server from your feed. I’m not a fan of Hentaiof any of its subs. But I digress, I’m not on your server so I guess I don’t really have a say. 😁
Just block the communitys you don’t want to see.
I’d like that shit gone too. I understand not wanting to close ourselves off too much but I think things like avoiding groups that are ok with shit like loli is a no brainer.
Agreed, its a big precedent to set blocking off a whole server but its ok in this extreme of a case.
What is loli?
Drawings of fictional, usually underaged, characters; typically but not always from anime/manga.
Underage anime girl
That’s not true. It’s a petite anime girl, not underage. People keep trying to conflate the two. It’s weird because even if they have big boobs and are obviously legal people still try to shove them into the title of being underage. (like the petite sensei, Uzaki, and Hestia from Is it Wrong to Pick up Girls in a Dungeon).
that’s oppai loli
Loli is still literally in the name. Twitter freaks still try to cancel it.
I mean yeah of course. That character is actually a 9000-year old vampire, not a child
/s
No need to defederate. I just went and blocked loli and related communities that popped up. I will never see them again.
So, my vote is NAY.
Federation is still young.
It may be easy to individually block communities now but what about in a few months/years when there are potentially 10x more communities across 10x more instances?
How intimidating would it be for a new user to have to go through 100+ communities and block them all individually instead of just blocking 5-10 instances?
How exactly do I do that?
Would you say the same about a gore community?
I would block gore communities on a personal level, but there’s no need to do so on a server level unless they’re doing something worth defederating for, like any of the following:
- posting cp
- using their server to DoS/DDoS others
- dox-ing people
- allowing their users to harass others AND refusing to punish such behavior
- same as above except for ban evasion
I’d like to have a force-nsfw option for communities that don’t enforce proper usage of the NSFW tag, but for now I’d have to block them most likely.
I like watching gore.
Please do not. Although I don’t personally want to see lolicon stuff, many of the servers willing to host it have communities I want to interact with. For instance, burggit.moe is where the touhou communities went and is otherwise a pretty nice instance aside from loli communities.
It is content which, while understandably offensive to some, harms nobody. All fictional porn, no matter how deviant it is, is ultimately more ethical than real porn can be.
It should be up to users to block or hide instances with content they don’t wish to see, and defederation should be reserved for communities that consistently cause interference, not for communities that simply have content which one disagrees with.
As I’ve pointed out in a few spots on this post: regardless of your moral stance, loli is considered the same as child porn by many government agencies. You may not be “harming” anyone, but you’re harming the people that host and view that content in a criminal sense.
You got downvoted for telling the truth. This place is the new reddit.
Yeah its a pretty nice experience on burggit other than the one or two loli communitys (that everyone can easily block for themselves)
This
why are all of the touhou communites on there
like, that’s weird; there’s tons of lemmy instances that they could have been on, and kbin has a (very inactive) community as well
onto the point:
All fictional porn, no matter how deviant it is, is ultimately more ethical than real porn can be.
This may be true, but you can’t blame many users for being really turned off by it; like I think it’d be perfectly acceptable if most people don’t want to interact with an instance hosting that.
If you don’t like that, then you might have to move to another instance tbh
Why not just leave it up to users on user by user basis? Are we already trying to regulate stuff on this platform? Block stuff if you don’t like it, ignore if not. I’m by no means for loli personally, but that’s going to start a snowball of overstepping and pretty soon it’ll be like R where everything is locked, deleted, blocked, or hidden.
If it’s not illegal, ignore it.
Loli is illegal in some countries. It’s illegal in the US, if that’s where OP is located. Any depiction of a minor in a sexual situation, whether drawn or photographed, is considered child pornography.
it isn’t illegal in the us another comment thread was discussing it
Absolutely block instances hosting illegal content - the way federation works means copies / caches of content can end up on this server? Or even if that’s not how lemmy does it, it risks using this server to facilitate the spread of something incredibly harmful & damaging.
As far as I’m concerned there’s no argument for allowing / normalising content produced which quite literally ruins peoples lives.
Edit: Even stuff that’s purely cartoonish in nature for me is just grim, and I don’t want to be a part of a community which supports it.
Edit2: If a server can block a specific community posting CSAM then maybe that’s a better solution than blocking the underlying infrastructure. If that’s not possible, I think defederation is the only real way to deal it, as frustrating as that would be for legitimate users.
Its literally not illegal in 90% of countrys because its just drawings. And if you don’t like it block it for yourself. This mindset leads to massive over-blocking.
In general I’d agree and say yeah, let people decide for themselves but content like this, which normalises or legitimises real world harms, shouldn’t be something easily stumbled upon.
Viewing that sort of content, or building community around its enjoyment, isn’t going to lead anywhere good.
Allowing it to show up here is net-negative.
It’s been a long time since I’ve looked, but studies suggest that porn in general doesn’t have a major effect on your behavior. It might lead to insecurity, but it doesn’t lead to action. Some people are worried about legality, most people just don’t want to see it, those are fine and dandy but anything else is just moral outrage
I think people can have a heathy relationship with porn, and yeah there are a lot of puritanical views that sound superficially convincing, especially in direct comparison to addictive substances.
It’s hard for a lot of people to approach this subject from a place of empathy and I think shunning a group could risk the same harms as condoning the behaviour; you end up with a group that convinces itself of an internally invisible false narrative, and there’s nobody there to oppose it.
The presence of these images though indicates a group of people who think they’re is ok, who are likely accessing more extreme images, and ultimately creates a sense of normalcy around consumption. I don’t think ordinary discussion should be juxtaposed with that and it shouldn’t be freely available on a general purpose site.
Actually studies around that topic show that porn (regardless of what) does decrease violent things and, most importantly, that this type of hentai we are talking about decreased actual acts of pedophilia and therfore protects real children
I don’t want to see it but if some people like it… Well rather a drawing than anything else.
This post has the same energy as parents asking legislative bodies to not allow nudity or violence in media for the entire country. What you gain in ease of use, you lose in censorship by not getting the choice to decide.
I don’t particularly care for the loli stuff but asking the admins to make that decision deprives me of choice. This instance already defederated lemmy.grad because they’re tankies and while that happens to align with my personal beliefs, it is a slippery slope.
Loli stuff is illegal though, at least in the United States. Viewing even accidentally can be considered a crime. The OP has a valid point.
As far as I know it isn’t illegal in the US since the Ashcroft case in 2003, but exists in a gray area subject to the standard Miller test for obscenity that all pornography is subject to. I seriously doubt incidental viewing of it would be a crime. But I 100% could be wrong as I am not a lawyer.
I’m not a lawyer either, but a quick search shows that state law is the thing this could be breaking. It’s not criminally punishable to possess it, but acquiring or distributing it via the internet is potentially illegal. Here’s a page from a Massachusetts lawyer discussing the legality. https://anthonyricciolaw.com/is-lolicon-legal-in-the-us/#:~:text=Under federal law%2C a simple,state laws regarding child pornography.
Edit: apparently that’s only part of the requirements for illegality. The other part is sexuality or not having “value” which is subjective. Either way, it’s a dice roll on criminal acts.
