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I’m amazed he managed to roll a nat 20 on a d8, thats cheating on a whole new level
I fuckin hate this notion in modern dnd (which is a misconception in the first place) that its just “let a d20 decide: the game”. That’s not how the game has ever been played. If you wanna have goofy mad-lib games with your friends where you just roll dice and laugh that’s fine but you’ve never, in 50 years, had to roll to see if you’re able to cast Cure Wounds or Heal.
That is a mechanic in some other games where spellcasting isn’t a guaranteed thing. But not in core Dungeons and Dragons.
I wish my DM would accept this. I was born with this power but I might fail to cast it? Why am I not rolling to see if I walk properly since that was a learned ability.
Why am I not rolling to see if I walk properly since that was a learned ability.
Octodad: Pen&Paper edition?
QWOP tabletop edition
Shadowdark has d20 rolls for spellcasting and by all accounts it’s fantastic. If you succeed the roll you cast the spell and expend no resources. If you fail you can’t cast the spell for the rest of the day. I don’t believe for a second that it’s what the OP in this post was playing though.
That is a mechanic in some other games where spellcasting isn’t a guaranteed thing. But not in core Dungeons and Dragons.
Like in warhammer fantasy, where a guy i’ve played with managed to cast one spell during a fight that took 30-60 mins irl
I guess since in many cases you do actually need to roll a dice, like when peeforming a touch or ranged touch spell, people just assume it always happens.
And even in this case. Cure wounds is a spell like any other and it is subject to a will saving throw. So to be correct the pc that was targeted by the spell would indeed roll in order to save from the unintended heal - but thats really just assuming the spell could be used like this, which in my interpretation it cannot.
So again, even if the caster rolls no dice in this case, the target could. I think this leads to people thinking there must always be a roll.
Edit: fix paragraphs
Will isn’t an attribute/stat in dnd 5e and the only roll one would make for cure wounds is the amount of healing applied.
Thats not what I said.
Never played 5e but in 3.5e the target of the spell - not the spellcaster - can roll a dice. The target can perform a will save to reduce healing amount by half.
didn’t dnd 2e have you roll a d20 if you cast while wearing armor? too low of a roll and the cast fails? No crit effects, just simple pass/fail, right?
Casting an Arcane Spell in Armor: A character who casts an arcane spell while wearing armor must usually make an arcane spell failure check. The number in the Arcane Spell Failure Chance column on Table 6–6 is the percentage chance that the spell fails and is ruined. If the spell lacks a somatic component, however, it can be cast with no chance of arcane spell failure.
https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=361
It was a rule in Pathfinder, so presumably it was a rule in 3e.
Pathfinder has that too, so it presumably carried through 3.5e. It’s why wizards don’t wear armor, and only applies to arcane casters, and classes that are meant to wear some armor like bards get exemptions for the tiers of armor they’re meant to wear.
Bad DM.
Nat 20 doesn’t just let you do whatever. Cure wounds could easily be interpreted as returning the body to its natural state as the soul percieves it. If wanted his legs back more than anything so much that his soul held onto it like phantom pain, then I would say maybe a Greater Restoration could if he wanted that.
But if he’d grown accoustomed to his new life and his new legs and no longer sought to “restore” anything, having made peace with his injury, then no, greater restoration would just restore him to his own healthy self image. And a spell like cure wounds would do absolute dick.
I’d love to let this play out, narrate the lack of effect of this spell, and kick this asshole from the table.
So does that not imply that…
HP Restoratives are gender affirming care?
That happens in the stormlight archive books, which handle magical healing exactly that way.
My read of simple HP restoring magical healing, at least in D&D, is simply that it is equivalent to accelerated natural healing with no potential for complications. So if whatever ailment you’re trying to heal wouldn’t also be healed by any arbitrary amount of rest and recuperation then Cure Wounds won’t cut it either.
There’s a book I read that takes place in Faerun where a cleric is getting tortured by ogre clerics by having his limbs broken and then they use heal spells to heal his limbs at odd angles. After he’s freed, they break his limbs again, heal them in braces, but he had a permanent limp
DnD healing can only do so much before its just some high power reality changing magic.
Exactly. If that adventurer wanted to “cure” what he saw as a flaw, he could quest for a much more specialized magical healer or more powerful spell to enable it. I mention greater restoration, but true polymorph to his original form, or some kind of time manipulation, etc. There are options, at a high enough toer of magic, to undo injury, but that power has to have been attained.
This is why amputations aren’t cured by a cure wounds. You can’t just grow a pile of pork by hacking into a live pig and repeatedly healing it.
narrate the lack of effect of this spell, and kick this asshole from the table.
You had me in the first half. First 95%
I am unsure from what this is from, but I once read a story in which a form of healing magic exists. One requirement for it to work was that the person being healed needs to be OK with it. If someone tried to cure your paralyzed legs and you don’t want them to be “fixed” as you don’t view as an issue or being paralyzed is just part of how you are, then the magic can’t work on you.
Cure wounds could easily be interpreted as
It could far easier be interpreted as healing what the caster or their god perceives to be a wound, since IT’S THEM THAT DOES THE DAMN CURING.
I get inclusion, I really do. And if you wanna go there, the guy playing the cleric is a prick if he’s doing this to a disabled guy’s character. But you’re not escaping this with logic, because disabled guy is also a prick.
You’re in a universe of immortal gods, magic, amazing tech and telling stories. Don’t you dare pretend there’s any ailment that can’t be healed by some random cleric of Waukeen or Kol Korran, both being deities of wealth that would approve of their priests being basically traveling salesmen, exchanging healing for money. You can cure anything for the right amount of gold, and let’s not all act like we wouldn’t want our walking/eyesight/hearing/whatever restored, and actively work to pay for one of these services.
Some of the traits we want to give our characters just don’t translate into this magical world, and there’s no ruling where a DM can still have it make sense if the cleric is in character when doing this. What you want to ask yourself before you get to this situation is, would this guy have seriously been crippled all his life and was never able to raise the few hundred gold for a healing spell? And would an adventuring party even want him on?
This should’ve been nixed at session 0 if not all players agree that this setting allows for incurable disabilities/diseases. Cause I for sure don’t want a cleric in my party that “isn’t allowed” to remove curses or heal. Oh, he’s wheelchair-bound? The party exits the pub, you are unable to catch up to them as there are some stairs in the way. This is life without wheelchair ramps, better get used to some boring sessions ahead. Unless you wanna explore a dungeon and see if falling down stairs while stuck in a chair is gonna be easy to survive for your lvl1 wizard.
It could far easier be interpreted as healing what the caster or their god perceives to be a wound, since IT’S THEM THAT DOES THE DAMN CURING.
If the caster doesnt know how Tieflings are naturally supposed to look, are they going to then heal them of their “deformities” and remove their horns? I’d very much argue the caster’s intent is irrelevent. And as others have noted, there is lore of how cure wores operates to accelerate natural healing, not just reality warp into a perfect body. Splint a break and heal it, done. Cure wounds on a fresh cut, done. Cure wounds on a 10 year old scar? Thats not a wound. No effect. Otherwise no one in DnD would have any scars, even cool ones.
because disabled guy is also a prick.
You are searching hard for reasons to argue against this. Just wanting to be how you are is not being a prick.
You’re in a universe of immortal gods, magic, amazing tech and telling stories. Don’t you dare pretend there’s any ailment that can’t be healed by some random cleric of Waukeen or Kol Korran, both being deities of wealth that would approve of their priests being basically traveling salesmen, exchanging healing for money. You can cure anything for the right amount of gold, and let’s not all act like we wouldn’t want our walking/eyesight/hearing/whatever restored, and actively work to pay for one of these services.
By this logic, no character in DnD should ever have scars, or exist with anything but a pristine body. And yet, some of the most famous characters out there have scars and missing fingers. How odd.
Some of the traits we want to give our characters just don’t translate into this magical world, and there’s no ruling where a DM can still have it make sense if the cleric is in character when doing this. What you want to ask yourself before you get to this situation is, would this guy have seriously been crippled all his life and was never able to raise the few hundred gold for a healing spell?
Usually no. A few hundred gold in most settings is actually quite a large amount for a non-adventurer.
And would an adventuring party even want him on?
Because the disabled are without worth if they inconvenience the party even slightly? Nevermind that all your ranting aboht how magic could affect the body could much more cheaply and immediately apply to objects like a wheelchair, and thus make sense for them to have worked around their disability than to have afforded some of the most expensive healing that exists to treat it.
This should’ve been nixed at session 0 if not all players agree that this setting allows for incurable disabilities/diseases.
Yea I don’t think that most see “curing my disabled friend by force” as something that session 0 would even need to touch on. Most of these spells have “willing creature” as an assumed condition.
Cause I for sure don’t want a cleric in my party that “isn’t allowed” to remove curses or heal. Oh, he’s wheelchair-bound? The party exits the pub, you are unable to catch up to them as there are some stairs in the way. This is life without wheelchair ramps, better get used to some boring sessions ahead. Unless you wanna explore a dungeon and see if falling down stairs while stuck in a chair is gonna be easy to survive for your lvl1 wizard.
This whole paragraph again is some hateful ableist shit with 0 imagination. I’m not even going to bother listing the dozens of simple creative solutions to “omg stairs!” that escape you, and simply point out that, again, cure wounds is a low level healing spell not even a greater restoration. And long-term scars and illnesses canonically exist in DnD. So get over yourself. If the player doesnt want “cure my legs” to be their whole fucking quest, then let them have their magical wheelchair with equivalent mobility and move the fuck on.
Jesus its not even hard. “The wheels of my contraption have a minor strength buff so i can push it easily, and some years later a kind enchanter cast a permanent low grade spider climb on the wheels so i can go up stairs and uneven terrain fairly easily now. It’s not strong enough to climb walls, unfortunately. But I appreciated it immensely all the same. I get around as well as most now, I suppose. Still can’t see over countertops all the time though.”
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I refused the heal because I heard it causes autism.
Yes, Int is my dump stat, why do you ask?
Alright, you cast heal wounds. Any wounds on the legs are healed. You are now aware that paralysis from birth is not a “wound”
Yeah that’s more regenerate or maybe power word heals territory.
Even with regenerate, what exactly are you regenerating? If the necessary neural pathways for the legs to work never developed in the first place, they couldn’t be “regenerated”. If this was your goal I think you might need to true polymorph a guy into “the same guy but his legs work”
“You touch a creature and stimulate its natural healing ability.”
If stem cells could solve the issue, it’s possible. Turn it into a surgery, high DC medicine check, or an insane arcana check and a DM would probably let it play.
I think it would probably require greater restoration.
Also, regenerate would definitely work you would just have to cut his legs off first.
You couldn’t “restore” something to a state it’s never been in. Cutting off the legs and then casting regenerate would “regenerate” the lost pair of paralyzed legs.
Greater Restoration ends a “debilitating effect” pretty sure most DMs would allow a 5th level spell to cure paralysis.
“Your nerves are forged anew, and your legs are as strong as a marathon runner’s. Unfortunately you never learned to walk, much less run. Good luck.”
Fair enough
I don’t think logic applies to healing magic in DnD lol.
Is logic not the role of the DM?
I once ran a campaign based on Fred Saberhagen’s books of swords. I’m the books there are twelve swords that would be considered greater artifacts. One of my players was playing a pacifist. He picked up the sword called Townsaver while his village was being invaded. Anyone who has read the books knows this same situation happens right at the beginning of the series. The sword takes over, because it’s power is to force anyone who holds it to protect unarmed innocents. He proceeded to slaughter the invading force. He was devastated.
Holy shit, that sparked a memory. I read some of them back in the early nineties.
It’s worth reading the whole series of you’re interested. They aren’t awesome, but they are fairly quick reads, and the way he resolves the story is interesting.
… Ranlar slowly rises from his wheelchair before collapsing under his own weight as his atrophied legs give out. Your party must now find a way to move him away from the orcs without using his newly healed legs, perhaps on a nearby chair with wheels.
I cast heal on Ranlar’s legs
I cast heal on my muscles to make them stronger than they were before, since I guess that’s how it works now?
This is like an episode of House.
I think the Heal spell would actual do this. Wish absolutely would.
That spell doesn’t require a d20. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Going beyond the spell usecase might call for a d20 tho
This is the kind of petty squabbling that makes dnd for me 🤌
“The social model of disability states-”
“PELOR SAYS RUN, BITCH, THERE’S A MONSTERS”
“Fixers” are fucking annoying in any roleplay experience, I don’t know what drives them to it but they never seem to get that it’s not like, it’s not like actually being crippled.
Yeah, if someone at the table wants certain attributes for their character, the DM should not allow others to mess with that without very good reason. This guy being a dick about it? He can find another table.
This thread has helped my understanding why new players I meet to are so intimidated by the game. It seems many people favor strict rule following over just having a good time.
Player: “I do something to Eric’s character against his will.”
A good DM: “No, you don’t.”
End of discussion.
Eric just needed a better backstory for his wheelchair-bound character. And really in most high fantasy settings the only way it makes sense to have a permanent disability like that would be from a curse.
You’re assuming there are enough >2nd level casters around to cast Lesser Restoration (or whatever the equivalent is in your campaign). As far as I’m concerned, magic should be extraordinarily rare. Does every preacher get cleric powers? Does everyone with draconic ancestry get sorcerer powers? Can anyone with an instrument kill a commoner with an insult?
In my campaigns, very few NPCs are even 1st level in a class. Maybe one in every 20 villages has a 1st level cleric in their church. It takes a 130 IQ to even start learning to be a wizard. Basically everyone can trace some line back to a dragon in their family tree, but maybe 0.001% ever get strong enough powers to even cast a Light cantrip
In Pathfinder, magic is common enough that either your village or the next will have a healer capable of that powerful of a heal spell. The only catch is that the casting costs about a year’s worth of wages for a peasant
Where do the casting costs come from? Are they reagents for the spell?
If you’re good at something, never do it for free.
Someone that’s good at voice acting still gets paid for their time and expertise, even if no physical resources were spent doing their work
Your words are poorly chosen. This is a very low effort response.
First of all its just inaccurate. Many heros in many fantasy settings have some kind of limitation/disability
Not usually MC but sometimes even MC
First of all its just inaccurate. Many heros in many fantasy settings have some kind of limitation/disability
Name 3
Toph from avatar: eyes
Conan the Barbarians from Discworld: teeth
Gimli from Lord of the Rings: height
You go do the work, and enjoy some books while you do it.
Go read a few ravenloft, forgotten realms, dragonlance, or other dnd series
Go read some raymond e feist riftwar/magician books.
Go read a dozen palladium Rifts worldbooks
Just read any large fantasy franchise and you find any number of disabled characters
Damn near every healing spell in a fantasy ttrp will have a ruling on not being able to heal natural conditions such as blindness or simply that it straight up wont restore lost limbs
Im sure catti bri and drizzt ran into a few pirates and sailors with missing limbs
Or are you going to tell me theres no peg legs in fantasy?
No old heroes who cant fight anymore because they lost a limb
Ita inaccurate because most fantasy worlds that ive read dont have mid to high level healers in every square km of their worlds
Trying to think of some in dragonlance. Nope. None. Unless you count one page wonders that don’t even matter.
You go do the work, and enjoy some books while you do it.
You clearly don’t understand how things work.
You made the claim. Therefore you have to provide sources to back up your claim
Only if i care to convince you, i dont
So fucking true. There are so many insufferable people on the internet that view any form of communication as a formal debate.
So you couldn’t list any off the top of your head and had to rely on a list made by someone else. You’re really just proving my point here
- I wasn’t the person you asked to name 3.
- Heaven forbid I contribute to the conversation by providing a relevant list to a discussion.
A 20 does not mean the spell achieves something out of its capabilities, what is this five year olds playing DnD?
Honestly, as a DM, when this doesn’t infringe on other player’s fun like here I don’t mind doing extraordinary stuff for the Nat 20
Taking away someone’s intentional, roleplayed disability definitely falls under “infringing on someone’s fun”, though. If the player (not just the character) is also disabled and trying to represent themselves in the game, this goes beyond infringing on fun straight into lowkey offensive. I would never let this nat 20 work. Maybe it fixes the wheelchair or something.
Main issue is the wheelchair itself. No adventurer would ever use a wheelchair, the only reason we can use wheelchairs now are uniform roads and ada mandated ramps. Magic carpets exist and are cheap in game and don’t make you a liability.
Why do people think this? Like, I’m not mad at you, just amazed at how common this belief is.
Wheelchairs were around, and in use on surfaces that were abysmal in comparison to modern ones, but they worked.
Whether or not an adventurer would use one is a different issue, but folks really don’t know shit about wheelchairs it seems.
I’m not saying it would be fun, or easy, but I’ve been out in the woods on paths barely wide enough to fit a chair, and had people, my patients, push themselves the entire way, lumps, ruts, rocks, roots and all. And rubber tires aren’t magic for that. They help, but they don’t make the impossible possible, just the edge cases easier.
Because this is a FANTASY WORLD with MAGIC and BETTER ALTERNATIVES.
Quoting you
… the only reason we can use wheelchairs now are uniform roads and ada mandated ramps.
That is not about the fantasy world, unless ada means All Drow Associated or something, though why drow would mandate ramps, I have no idea. Maybe because spiders don’t like steps?
So your fantasy world has asphalt roads and uniform sidewalks and paved connections between every village? If your 99.9% of dnd games you are playing in the mideaval era world with magic. So just use the fucking magic items.
How do you know he doesn’t put it on a floating disk?
Then it is no longer a wheelchair, it’s a magical floating chair which is acceptable.
I mean, have you considered a dwarven wheelchair made from the shields of the fallen, using their frames for wheels that grant comparable protection while gaining grip compared with a wooden spoke?
Or a druidic wheelchair of entire roots that bonded to the druid when they were mortally wounded on the forest, bonding them permanently?
Or a warlock who walks with an artificial leg of miasma and lurching tentacles that his patron restored him to in exchange for his soul debt?
Literally no reason and no way a wheelchair in game is more a liability than some geriatric old fucking wozard breaking his hip or your characters having a concussion and needing an EMT.
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Though better than the alternative it would still be terrible on any uphill.
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Roots bonding to the lower body would not form a wheelchair, more like darth maul spider legs.
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That’s a leg, not a wheelchair.
In every scenario, using any magic would circumvent the disability in a way that ends up mimicking walking while not being a liability.
Yes.
That is wheelchairs and prosthetics do my friend.
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I have had players make persuasion checks against me before when they want to do something that’s explicitly outside the rules but I think it would be cool. Depending on how cool I think it would be, the DC can be anywhere from 10 to 20, and the player doesn’t have proficiency
That’s another good idea ! I want to create an environment that incentivizes player creativity soo this could be fun :)
nor can you make another player do something they don’t want
What gave you that idea? Games make other players do stuff they don’t want all the time.
the GM can make players do things they don’t want, if players disagree it is at best a contested check but in almost all cases the controlling player controls their own character
Yes, but in table top unless you signed up for a PvP game, other players don’t get to dictate how your character is. And even the DM shouldn’t railroad.
