It feels like Harris has to run a damn near flawless campaign just to BARELY beat this guy. Yeah you can bring up the current state of the country, but Trump mishandled COVID, there were over 200k deaths, BLM protest and was 2x impeached. And yet, Joe Biden BARELY beat him.

Trump is a convicted felon, liable sexual predator, caused an insurrection on the Capitol Hill, tried to steal the 2020 election (find me 11,000 votes), constantly kisses Russia’s ass, has more pending court cases and gets sentenced next month and overall has been the main driving factor in America’s division.

Yet, this race is STILL either 50/50 or a slight tilt (Harris leads the polling aggregate right now). Harris gets destroyed by the corporate media for almost anything, yet Trump is still lying and saying the most outlandish shit and nobody cares.

Why does it feel standards are much higher for Harris than Trump?

  • dhork@lemmy.world
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    Because too many people treat politics like a sporting event. You root for your team no matter what, and against the other team. You have to do it this way, because if the other side wins that means your side loses.

    So there are too many people who view Trump as “Their Guy”, and are “rooting” for him. Anything they hear that might portray Trump in a negative light (like a criminal trial, for instance) must be the Other Side trying to cheat to win unfairly.

    I remind people that Roger Ailes was Nixon’s media consultant, and the lesson he learned from Watergate was that Nixon could have gotten away with it if the media was more sympathetic. He then went on to be the CEO of Fox News. That’s no accident. There is a direct line from Nixon to Trump, and Roger Ailes drew it.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      the lesson he learned from Watergate was that Nixon could have gotten away with it if the media was more sympathetic.

      Then we got Reagan, Bush, and Trump, and he proved it.

      • halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world
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        The media almost singlehandedly bringing Watergate to the average American’s attention was why Murdoch created Fox News. It was created specifically so they could force control of the narrative to their advantage.

        And then we allowed every other media corporation to be bought and do the same once they saw it worked so well.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          The media almost singlehandedly bringing Watergate to the average American’s attention

          If you really get under the hood of Watergate, it had all the fingerprints of a soft coup. Nixon was a shit and made for an easy fall guy, but also Trumpian in his stubbornness and his refusal to go whole hog on the Cold War. Ford toed the line - installing Bush Sr to clean Kennedy’s liberals out of the CIA, promoting Greenspan and Rumsfield to the Republican inner circle, and tapping the breaks on our openness with China.

          There was no real reason to break into the Watergate given that Nixon was beating McGovern in a landslide. But it did a lot of favors for the movement conservatives like Goldwater and Reagan to get Nixon’s ass out on the curb.

          The WaPo (a hotbed of spooks even back then) played a big roll in that for a reason. Ffs, Woodward was an agency man going back to his time in Naval Intelligence. He broke Watergate less than a year after joining the paper.

          • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            3 months ago

            Woodward going on to not reveal Trump’s admission that Trump knew exactly how dangerous COVID was and was purposefully downplaying it until Woodward published his book on Trump couldn’t be anymore revealing of capitulation to power while claiming to speak truth to power.

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              He was celebrated as a whistleblower for releasing it long after the news was worth more than court gossip.

              The man is the poster child for why American major news media is absolute dog shit. We see the same pattern with Bush Iraq War fuck ups sat on through to 2005. And all the banking scandals squelched during the thick of the OWS protests. And the Theranos woman misdiagnosing hundreds of patients with her hoax machine while parading around as a business celebrity. And the Bitcoin scams hushed up until the biggest players had exited the market.

              Whether it’s Bob Woodward or Micheal Lewis or Judith Miller, there’s a cast of these characters who exist to hoodwink people into thinking they have a free press.

              • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                And the Theranos woman misdiagnosing hundreds of patients with her hoax machine while parading around as a business celebrity.

                Although, to be fair, this story has at least one comical bent. She was obsessed with those fucking dogs that she did absolutely nothing to care for. Combine that with the fact that she didn’t just hoax her patients, she also hoaxed investors. My favorite is knowing at some point she was buttering up Kissinger while those dogs were dropping big steaming piles of shit in the same room. Kissinger nodding along, seriously, while dogshit smell permeates everything.

                It’s fucking comical how stupid some of the ostensibly smartest and most important people are.

                • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                  Combine that with the fact that she didn’t just hoax her patients, she also hoaxed investors.

                  That was the comedy angle. The tragedy angle is that the patients never able to sue, because it was impossible for them to determine if they’d been part of the faulty test group.

                  Investors got their pound of flesh while folks who were actually harmed were left without recourse.

          • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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            If you really get under the hood of Watergate, it had all the fingerprints of a soft coup.

            Not really. The major issue was that the President got caught and there wasn’t a propaganda network out there to drum up support.

            Several Republican senators visited Nixon before he resigned because it was too politically costly for them to not vote for impeachment. In contrast, there weren’t political consequences for voting against Clinton’s and Trump’s impeachments.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              The major issue was that the President got caught

              E. Howard Hunt and G. Gordon Liddy got caught. Hunt was an old school pro and close friends with Allen Dulles. He was also directly employed by future Bush FBI director Robert Muller, before joining Nixon’s team. After committing a string of crimes for Nixon, he served a mere 33 months in a low security federal prison.

              Liddy served a slightly longer 55, then got a series of sweetheart media deals from his friends in conservative media. He was the top speaker on the college circuit in 1982, three years after leaving prison.

              Several Republican senators visited Nixon before he resigned because it was too politically costly for them to not vote for impeachment.

              Lead by Goldwater, a major Nixon rival for leadership in the party. Ford was Goldwater’s pick for the VP slot after Agnew resigned as well.

              In contrast, there weren’t political consequences for voting against Clinton’s and Trump’s impeachments.

              There was a big reward for Lieberman when he voted for impeachment. Gore put him on the VP ticket.

              Meanwhile, a handful of Republicans who voted to impeach Trump - most notably Liz Cheney - got primaried out of office.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          He avoided impeachment the same way Clarence Thomas survived his confirmation hearing.

          Ted Kennedy and Tip O’Neal decided it wasn’t worth pursuing.

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        That is why I move to bigger more ethnic cities or countries where I am wanted at and dont have to put up with that shit. Just worked with a nazi/neonazi/skinhead or whatever and I while he would talk to me about his beliefs I woulld always find an excuse to walk away

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          As someone who is solidly left and visibly queer, but doesn’t particularly like living in big cities, that’s the question- how do you live near trees, but not Republicans?

    • BadmanDan@lemmy.worldOP
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      Thanks for that info, I never about the Ailes Nixon-Trump connection. This is so frustrating to see unravel in real time.

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    The problem isn’t that Harris is being held to a higher standard. The problem is that Americans think of elections the same way they think of a sporting match. It’s “my team is going to win!” not “I’m going to vote for the candidate that is best aligned with my beliefs.” A huge number of the people who are voting Republican are doing so because the Republican party is their “team,” and damn it, their team is going to win even if it kills them.

    Many years ago, I was discussing politics with a coworker (always a bad idea, but whatever). It went something like this:

    “So, you don’t think the less-fortunate should be able to afford medical care?” “No, of course not, everyone should be able to see a doctor.”

    “You don’t think gay people should be allowed to marry?” “I’m not gay, but they can do whatever makes them happy.”

    “You support the war in Iraq, then?” “I support our troops, but the war is kind of a waste.”

    “We definitely should legalize weed, right?” “Um, I’d smoke it if I didn’t get drug tested.”

    “So why are you voting Republican, then?” “My family is Republican; we always do.”

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      As an outsider looking in, I’ve seen a lot of footage of rallies and events (on both sides) that are just absolutely crazy to me. Almost dystopian. People with painted faces, all kinds of merch, hollering and shouting and cheering like it’s the X Factor or a rock concert or something. You see people being interviewed outside the events and it’s like a festival in the background. It’s really, really bizarre. We have problems with our politics here too but not like that. I can’t believe that all of those people are ACTUALLY that passionate about any policies themselves, it’s just vague culture wars nonsense with a bizarre personality contest as a proxy for it.

      As I say, I’m not trying to act superior. My country has its share of problems too, just a very different sort.

    • nifty@lemmy.world
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      “So why are you voting Republican, then?” “My family is Republican; we always do.”

      Republican politicians would eat this person and their family if it ever came to it

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      Here in Canada I’ve seen much the same behaviour for both Liberal and Conservative voters. “I vote Liberal because I’ve always voted Liberal” is a surprisingly common statement especially among the older generations, and to a small extent even the Green party has a few loyalists in BC.

      Always voting the same way no matter what happens is just giving your vote away for free.

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    Because a cult leader is automatically the purest one can be and needs no scrutiny.

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        There the opposite is true. They already know that the other guy is a villain. Their candidate will have to prove themselves not to be.

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        “Moderates” are a fiction. They’re just an excuse Democrats make for pandering to corporate donors while giving only the barest scraps to their leftist base.

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      That only explains the cultists, and I doubt the entire media industry is in the cult.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          Yes I agree, but only because they are a capitalists first and a human beings second.
          They love him because they are morons, who don’t know they are engaging in self harm.
          It’s sad that people of power, like for instance Elon Musk and the people behind Fox are so stupid they can’t see they are digging their own graves.

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    All those things you said against Trump are actually working in his favor. His base sees it as persecution of their chosen one.

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        Not if he cheats as hard as they plan to!

        Literally, the Supreme Court just made clear they’re helping promote the false narrative of “illegal immigrants voting,” which helps promote the understanding that the plan is to contest the fucking election, no matter the outcome.

        That’s why they have those electioneering hooligans in Georgia and why people are fighting it.

        They have zero intent to make this a fair fight. That’s why they don’t give a fuck about actual votes.

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          Yeah I read about the 70 electors in swing states that are Trump loyalists and election deniers. How these people are even allowed to certify votes is beyond me.

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          And the cheating will be tolerated promoted because they seriously beleive the other side is cheating. “Trump got more votes in 2020 than any prior candidate” is proof enough. Certainly can’t be that he’s such a polarizing, vile piece of shit that actually scared more non-voting people to vote tod defeat him, and they certainly can’t beleive Biden actually holds the vote record (note the key use of “prior” in trump’s claim). They really think the orange coastal elite is somehow on the working man’s side. The same cheeto that has declined to pay every contractor on his towers. The same cheese puff that couldn’t sell steaks. The same crayon that couldn’t find profit in a casino.

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    Can’t believe you are asking this now. In the 70s, I don’t believe any of these yokels would have been elected. Lauren Beaubert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Trump, they’ve all done things and said things that are so far over the line, it isn’t even funny. Nixon? Please, he would be small potatoes today.

    Why? Gerrymandering. Social Media. Lack of critical thinking skills. A sense of hopelessness. Apathy. Billionaire brainwashing. The list goes on. The strange thing is, conservatives want to go back to the way things were. For them that means when women had to go to back alleys to get abortions, when gays were stoned, when blacks weren’t allowed to vote. For me it means when people didn’t justify these ridiculous notions, but instead just said, “No!”

    • lurch (he/him)@sh.itjust.works
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      conservatives aren’t conservative any more. they are radically backwards. the things they want are so far back, they don’t even want democracy any more. i don’t really have a say in that, but maybe the time has come to stop calling them conservative.

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        I’m conservative vs. most of lemmy and damned if I’ll vote anything but straight D right down to dogcatcher. I wouldn’t vote for an R even if I liked them! The message must be sent. Even if it’s a loss, your vote ends up as a percentage on a spreadsheet. It is still seen.

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          i really wish more conservatives would accept this, or at the very least not back trump even a little bit, the dude who literally tried to overthrow the election, they throw so much bullshit at dems and dem controlled cities, but have literally no evidence other than “BUT BUT BLM” and “well, they’re taxes are higher” which is literally meaningless.

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          I know, as a conservative I get everything I asked for in the 1990’s by voting mainstream Democrat now. The parties can change all they want, I vote my views.

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        Yeah there was a long time ago when conservatives voted to protect national parks. These aren’t those times

    • BadmanDan@lemmy.worldOP
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      It’s wild that Trump has done things far worse than watergate, and still got the nomination.

  • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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    Trump is an outrage machine, and we have a media that deals in an economy of outrage.

    Trump gets outrage. Outrage gets clicks. Clicks get money. It’s a pretty simple chain to follow.

    We need to wake up and realize that a profit-driven instantaneous news system that leverages strong emotions is not good for anybody. Truth is subjective nowadays, (always has been, really, but it’s especially evident in the current media climate) and all that matters is getting information and narratives (not necessarily facts) out and people consuming it (and all the ads embedded with it) there, first, and right now.

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      I am shocked to see this pseudofascist apologia so highly upvoted.

      It’s not the media’s coverage of the fascism that’s the problem.

      You would rather deflect blame to the media than point the finger at the fascism. Shame on you.

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        I don’t think the fascism would exist if it wasn’t profitable to give it a platform.

        It’s like My 600lb Life.

        Trump is the bedridden 800lb lump of a human. And the news cycle that brings him hamburgers by the pallet is the enabler spouse.

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          I don’t think the fascism would exist if it wasn’t profitable to give it a platform.

          That’s stupid!

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    Because the media are largely in the hands of the oligarchy that will stop at nothing to get another tax cut.

  • Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world
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    You must be young. Because Republicans will vote for a criminal before they vote for “communism”. Because the Republicans attempt to destroy the educational system to keep people dumb enough to vote for them has worked. Because dispite the corporate media pandering and acting like they want Harris Because that’s what their viewers want, their billionaire owners don’t. They want the republican led centrist enabled tax breaks on their money. Harris has also brought in the progressives which have zero tolerance for the centrist mindset. She is in a situation where she has to dance a dance of trying to reel in the progressives even though they are going to throw a fit when she panders to the centrists and the corporate overlords.

    The system is made and controlled by the billionaires. No hard progressive that doesn’t play the game a little is going to get elected… right now. They will destroy anyone that threatens their billions. Everytime she goes a little too hard left they throw a fit.

    Welcome to end stage capitalism.

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    I feel like a lot of people on Trump’s side don’t care and all of his issues have been documented in the press. If people cared, he wouldn’t be this close.

    You also have enough people left of Harris who don’t want to hold their collective noses and vote for her. They’ll complain about the Overton window shifting right, but won’t be a bulwark for keeping it from shifting right. Hell, there are people on Lemmy complaining about political utilitarianism as a reason for voting for Harris and will even complain about Bernie if he says something being done by the Biden administration is good.

    • acosmichippo@lemmy.world
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      it’s so frustrating. I admit I used to vote green, but the entry of Trump opened my eyes. Things like judge appointments, incremental advances in fighting climate change, and NOT having a seditionist as president are all issues we can’t afford to lose on in the next 4 years just for some rhetorical vote for the Green Party.

      in a perfect world we’d have ranked choice voting, but we aren’t in that world.

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    It’s the same when it comes to any other countries. The right always gets away with corruption because it’s expected. Whereas the left has a higher moral standpoint so it is being accused of hypocrisy and things get blown out proportion even if small scale corruption occurs. For example in UK the previous government were giving jobs and contracts to friends and family all the time and nobody cried about it. It became accepted. The new left of centre government comes in and gives a temporary pass to a donor and suddenly it’s a huge scandal…

    It’s the same if you care for the environment and ever took a taxi somewhere, or a vegetarian or vegan and have shoes made out of leather. Sure you are doing better than everyone else to help but you are still the devil and worse than everyone else somehow…

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      vegetarian or vegan and have shoes made out of leather.

      I’m certainly not going to throw away perfectly good shoes until they are no longer repairable. Or the leather belt my sister sent me from New Zealand in the late 70s.

      Some people will give me stick for that though, all the time living their disposable lives.

      P.S. My last two pairs of boots came from Wills Vegan Shoes 😉

  • linearchaos@lemmy.world
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    I’ll take racism, sexism, propaganda and capitalism for 500 Alex.

    They’ve got pretty firm control of the business sectors through tax cut agenda. They’ve got pretty firm control of the farmers for the same. Through fear and propaganda they’ve got pretty strong control of the poor and some of the educated middle class in the rural areas. A lot of the red states are doing everything they can to impede their education systems. If you keep people from becoming educated there’s less competition at the top and a lot more red voters.

    All you’ve got to fight them are the poor and the middle class in the cities and suburbs and the occasional upper class that isn’t so self-serving that they’re willing to stand on everyone else.

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    Because so many trump voters are low-information, rabid and impervious to fact and/or reason. They will vote orange even if he shoots someone on Fifth Avenue to death, or if there are 32-or-whatever felony indictments/verdicts.

    Meanwhile, many potential Democrat voters are also low-information in their own way - impressionable, fickle and with little memory retention, they seem unable to act upon a clear and present danger until it punches them in the goddamned face (and by then of course it’s too late), somehow have normalized the orange threat and are easy prey to an algorithm pushing a “both parties are the same” divide-and-conquer propaganda.

    The difference between a parasite-laden excrement chip cookie and a raisin oatmeal cookie, “But I wanted chocolate chip! bOtH cOoKiEs ArE tHe SaMe!”

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          I respect your concern, and I am sympathetic to the people in Gaza, but I don’t understand why we’re blaming Kamala for a war on the other side of the world that’s been going on longer than I’ve been alive.

          I’m pretty sure I’ve asked you this exact question multiple times, and I’m suspecting that you’re just a Russian spam bot now.

          If not, I appreciate your dedication to your morals, and wanting to defend the lives in the middle east, but until you get a fucking clue about how the world actually works, nobody’s going to take you seriously.

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            Linkerbean is a well known troll whose only purpose is to dissuade left leaning folks from affecting the election. The concern is 100% fake. If you try to discuss what Trump’s position or the Republican party’s position is on Gaza, it won’t work, it’ll all just come back to why you shouldn’t vote for the Democrats.

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            “I sympathize with Palestinians but anyone who doesnt vote to Genocide them is a Russian bot”

  • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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    Can you imagine a woman or a black man (let alone a black woman) running for president while being three-times divorced with kids from multiple partners and having cheated multiple times on top of that? Even if they were rich like Trump, it would never fly.

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    Trump is more than a candidate. He validates and supports a state of mind. To many, he is a champion of a lifestyle and a way of thinking. That isn’t something that is easy to overcome.

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      I think this is a big chunk of it and the other large portion is the fact that the DNC picks terrible candidates to back. Harris is leaps and bounds better than Biden, but Biden was the nominee up until a monthish ago despite everyone’s objections. He barely beat Trump I’m 2020 and prior to that they backed Clinton who gave Trump four years in the White House to begin with.

      They need to stop catering to the right and fucking get behind the leftist people that actually support the party.