I know you all who have been here longer than 3 days are probably sick of the whole “leaving reddit” post trend here, but I figured this would be a good thing to talk about because I didn’t really see it mentioned too much. A lot of people have spoken on here about poor moderation, the whole API debacle, a sort of downward cycle in terms of content quality etc. Plus, when I did bring these things up on my now-deleted reddit account, people mostly resorted to the whole “You hate capitalism yet you exist in it” argument. I also wrote a sort of summary for this in my application, so whoever read my application doesn’t really need to read this. I basically said the same shit just shorter.

But for me it was just because people got kinda mean? What I mean is that over the past 4 years (probably accentuated by the pandemic), it felt less and less like a place where you could just talk to somebody. With every post I made, it felt like I was in a competition not just in terms of karma but in terms of making something that pleased as many people as possible. Every title needed to be perfect for the grammar people, every fact needed to be perfect for the fact people, everything needed to be as apolitical as possible.

And even with all of these unwritten rules, I came to realize that there really are just two types of posts or comments on reddit. There’s jokes, and then there’s debates. Jokes ended up being a little more lenient in terms of unwritten rules so I think that’s why there’s so fucking many of them on reddit and it’s almost unavoidable to escape the pit of sarcasm in reddit comment sections. But with debates, it felt like with every comment I made, people came in expecting me to either agree with them or refute a point they made. And if I didn’t make “a point,” I wasn’t contributing. I couldn’t just go “Yeah I like Metal Gear Solid V, too,” I had to go “Yeah I like Metal Gear Solid V, too, and the guy you’re responding to is a fucking moron for not doing so,” or “No, you’re a dumbass, MGS4 is way better.” I remember one time I joined into a conversation and somebody actually replied bullying me for not “contributing” and for posting useless comments, as if I were somehow wasting their time by not trying to argue with them.

And what’s even worse is people just don’t seem to know how to be nice about it? Obviously with the internet, people are going to bully you at some point but on reddit it was just all. the. time. Every post I made, every comment I made there was somebody who didn’t like it and felt the need to tell me about it by insulting me or my family or my cat. Everyone was mean. It felt truly impossible to disagree with a person on reddit without insulting them, because that was the culture that was accepted there.

While I don’t use TikTok, I ended up stumbling upon this series of them by way of YouTube Shorts called “Average Redditor…” by The Slappable Jerk and I really think they perfectly encapsulate what it’s like to browse reddit, and I hate that it took me so long to realize that’s what my experience was like. I kept watching them and going “Nah, nobody’s like that,” but then the more I used reddit the more I realized “Yeah, it’s kind of everybody including myself.” As you can see in the video I linked, the guy is either joking or debating and he’s not nice about either one, and frankly that’s kind of how every single one of my reddit experiences has been so far. I can’t really remember the last time anybody has been nice to me on reddit. Maybe that’s my fault and my brain is suppressing me from realizing it, but I do think it’s a problem inherent in the system if I’m seeing other people doing it to each other also.

I got banned from reddit as a whole a week ago for reporting a guy for calling me a “spastic loser” after getting angry when another guy got angry for me not reading some deeper meanings in his 1 sentence post. I think that whole really weird run-on sentence should tell you all you need to know about my reddit experience these past few years. Funnily enough despite it breaking the subreddit’s rules against insults, it was “report abuse.”

I ended up hearing about Lemmy while browsing today and I deleted my account just now. I saw probably a couple dozen posts at most. It seems kinda slow here. But you know what I didn’t see at all? People fighting. Calling each other names. Insulting each other. I saw debates and arguments but I straight up didn’t see the same kind of debates and arguments that I saw on reddit. On Reddit I could probably go 3 or 4 posts without that happening, but even posts of 12 comments will always have rude jerks on them. Now I’m still new here, and I have heard that there are toxic and xenophobic instances of Lemmy that are on massive blocklists, but Beehaw so far has been nothing short of just plain joyful. It’s so wonderful to see people online just. talking. to each other. And while I see people swearing (I did it myself in this post), it really just haven’t seen it directed at other users on here. On reddit it seems like there’s such a big culture of if you’re gonna insult somebody you go for the deepest-cut insult possible. On here I just haven’t seen that.

TL;DR: People on reddit are mean. Beehaw (and some other instances of Lemmy I signed up for) are far from that.

/rant

  • Synaptic_Jack@fedia.io
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    1 year ago

    I agree with most everything you said. My personal take: all the Karma upvoting/downvoting stuff shaped community behavior to a sort of drastic degree - you either say something pleasing/sarcastic to the community and get upvoted or you got buried with downvotes for injecting an alternative viewpoint. After a while, I found myself going along with something just because a post had a massive number of upvotes… not realizing that the majority of readers very rarely go past the top 3-5 comments on a thread. So whatever was on top was usually the highest voted, and it was most often a sarcastic response to a legitimate question someone posted.

    • pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io
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      1 year ago

      One of the things that make me really sad is the demise of Hacker News and how I can’t really go to the comments section in there anymore. I find lobste.rs to be a good replacement, especially when you need somebody to recommend you first to get an account there. It’s sharply focused on tech, preferably Linux and Unix, and programming. No startup economy bs, no product launches, just tech.

    • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      No, I’m not really a hacking person. You could call me more of a PC “hobbyist.” Never got into the nitty gritty stuff like hacking or programming.

        • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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          1 year ago

          I wouldn’t doubt it. A lot of my “hacker” buddies go pretty hard in the online discussions. They don’t really hold back.

    • XTL@sopuli.xyz
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      1 year ago

      I just wish it wasn’t completely on rails. And didn’t keep switching to the M4 in every cutscene. And wasn’t only on PS3.

    • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      I’d love to play it if/when the PC remaster comes out. Unfortunately I was an xbox 360 guy when MGS4 came out so I never really got the chance to play it.

      • Vardøgor@mander.xyz
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        1 year ago

        the PS3 emulator RPCS3 has made leaps and bounds, you don’t need crazy hardware anymore. i’m playing MGS4 on my RX 580

  • towerful@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    I find myself less guarded on beehaw in some ways, and more guarded in others.

    Firstly, I feel I can be more authentic. Discussions always seem to be in good faith, and I often come away learning something, reconsidering something, or just being more aware of other viewpoints. Whether I participate in the discussion or just read it.
    It’s just more enjoyable overall.

    Which leads me onto how I am being more guarded. I am really trying to consider other viewpoints before even engaging with posts or discussions.
    And I dislike that this is an effort for me.
    But I like that I have realised it, and I now get to make an effort to be better.

    • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      I think with the lower userbase, it’s much less easier to say something others would find abhorrent or rude and then sulk away into the shadows of millions of other users. People can see you and go “that’s that person who said some fucked shit.” So for me at least I’ve found myself being a bit more guarded, but I think that’s a good thing.

      • Ataraxia@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Lol reddit brought out the absolute worst in people. It brought out the old argumentative teenager on new grounds I used to be and I would have been mortified if anyone I knew had found any of my posts hahaha!

      • Mothra@mander.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Good point. But perhaps I’m wrong- I think most people don’t pay much attention to usernames here (or on Reddit for that matter). Lemmy makes it easier to change the display username iirc? So even if such was the case, I could quickly change mine. It would end up just like reddit, in which unless you bother checking a user’s profile you probably won’t know who they are or what they’ve said last month.

        • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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          1 year ago

          I guess that makes sense. Still, the smaller community still has me watching my words.

  • April@fedia.io
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    1 year ago

    My experience on reddit is very similar to yours. The more niche subreddits you could get away from it a bit but… yeah. the video you shared captures it perfectly.

    As for beehaw, I’m not on there so idk. I joined kbin/fedia but my experience on the fediverse sounds similar to your own. Lots of people just chatting and talking about how it feels like “the old internet” and not really any of that reddit snark/heated debate.

  • Two9A@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    …people came in expecting me to either agree with them or refute a point they made. And if I didn’t make “a point,” I wasn’t contributing.

    Exactly this; towards the end, I was writing a comment every couple of weeks on Reddit, and most of the reason why is that I felt I didn’t have “enough” of a contribution to make.

  • Henry Bowman@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    You wrote about this in your application? What application? Do some instances require an essay to join?

    • bermuda@beehaw.orgOP
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      1 year ago

      Beehaw requires an application to join. No, it wasn’t an essay in the sense that this post is kind of an essay. They just asked me three questions, and I wrote about a paragraph (5 sentences or so) for each question. This is basically what I wrote for the first two questions, just with a lot more words.

      In the FAQ for beehaw they said if you don’t write enough of a response then you won’t be let in, but I was let in within about 10 minutes of making it, so I guess 5 sentences was what they were looking for.

      • Henry Bowman@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        That’s really interesting and wasn’t my experience at all. I wonder what other requirements are out there for different instances?

        • macarthur_park@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Lemmy.world just has a single question, asking why you wanted to join. I think the purpose is primarily to prevent automated account creation for bots. I gave a 3 sentence answer and was admitted within a few minutes.

          • Kuma@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Lemmy.World has one too now? That was pretty quick I saw the other day a post asking if we shouldn’t have that because of bots. Lemmy.world is growing really fast!

            • macarthur_park@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Oh it had a question when I joined 5 days ago, but I guess they got rid of it since then. I’m guessing manual approval became unsustainable when 8k people joined in like 4 days haha

  • mrmanager@lemmy.today
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    1 year ago

    I was also surprised by how rude and mean people can be on reddit. I guess it’s mostly teenagers or people living in their moms basement.

    I love Lemmy so much.

    • Ataraxia@lemmy.world
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      Lol that’s an odd thing to say considering all the videos online of extremely rude racist and bigoted adults of all ages. Everyone has the capability of being horrible people. I am a 39 year old woman who spent too much time on reddit and became so defensive at all of the derogatory verbal assaults and depressingly ignorant replies that I stopped caring about being nice and helpful and became critical and harsh.

    • setsneedtofeed@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      I almost entirely posted on smaller niche communities and didn’t really pay attention to bigger ones. It was mostly relaxed. I remember once going onto r/entertainment and making a mild criticism of a show. I returned to find my comment like -70 and with essay length replies explaining how my opinion and lack of enjoyment were “objectively” wrong (Reddit comments did seem to love declaring certain opinions as objective). It was wild.

  • Drinkoffee@fedia.io
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    1 year ago

    People are people wherever they are. I have no hopes of getting rid of some kind of people just by moving to a different aggregator.

    I am removing my Reddit account since I learned they are punishing those who help them be who they are.

    I don’t give a flying sh*t about what anyone thinks of me. Yes I live in capitalism and I don’t need to justify my decision.

  • frogman [he/him]@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    i didn’t notice the lack of swearing until you mentioned it, that’s so bizarre lol. i didnt even think about it but it’s pretty cool :p

    • setsneedtofeed@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Constant swearing is like a replacement for cleverness. It wears thin very quickly.

      When I see comments saturated with swears all I can think of are tweenagers who just realized they are out of earshot of their parents. I’m not offended by the swearing, just bored.

      • BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Constant swearing is like a replacement for cleverness.

        :( Me, who swears like a sailor.

        I do like to think that is swear at things and not people.

    • UsualMap@fedia.io
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      1 year ago

      Indeed - to be clear I don’t have a problem with swearing, but it definitely adds to the overall better vibe over here.

      Regardless of what happens with Reddit I intend to stay.

  • thegiddystitcher@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    I know it’s not the point of your post (which I did read and also agree with) but just in case nobody else has mentioned it…

    In your summary you said you’d signed up for “other instances of Lemmy” and I just want to make sure you know you don’t need to do that to join communities in other places! :)

    • Jeef@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      I also signed up for multiple instances only because i found they are not quick with syncing with eachother. communities, posts and comments I’m finding show up differently depending on the instance

      • thegiddystitcher@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Yeah everything is taking an absolute hammering atm and federation is all over the place. I’ve got two accounts myself. Just couldn’t bear the idea of OP having like ten accounts for different instances by accident :D

  • elonspez@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    If lemmy gets big enough, it will be just like that. Your problem is not a Reddit problem but an Internet forum with nested threads problem. It’s much harder to hyperfocus on a comment in a flat comment structure.

    • lwgrs@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      An Internet … problem

      Yeah, that’s 100% it. On the Internet in 2023, everyone needs to be right or win with their comment. It’s off-putting when you’ve been on the Internet longer than Gen Z has been alive.

    • GhostMagician@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      Yep, there was a reason long time redditors used RES for the browser and third party apps to attempt to better curate content.

  • BlackCoffee@fedia.io
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    1 year ago

    I couldn’t just go “Yeah I like Metal Gear Solid V, too,”

    I would like to say to please DO post these kinds of things if you indeed like a product or service or whatever.

    When I am deciding on a purchase I also liked to look at reddit threads at what the experiences are from the people who already purchased the service/product.

    I would scan the threads and also look at how many people just agree with a point that is being made.

    It is moronic that people see this as not “contributing”, it actually also helps me as a consumer decide on the purchases I make and not all the comments have to be eloquent about it.