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Or maybe we are just sick and tired of fighting the world and don’t want that kind of drama at home with our partner.
I hate dealing with some types of men, it’s exhausting.
I mean it’s right there in the quote. They want to feel like a man. They don’t actually want to be one.
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What’s your go-to trick for boosting self-perception?
Therapy.
For real, I’ve been doing it for two years now and it helped a lot.
Did you really make an account just to post Facebook-tier self-help nonsense? With all the emoji spam, I bet it actually was copy/pasted off of Facebook. Get out of here.
It‘s AI generated.
Even worse. Blegh.
Just change King to also say man.
So a trans person saying that he is a man, is not a real man? Or more adapted to context, a trans person saying that he wants to feel like a man, is not a real man? and doesn’t deserve to feel like a man?
I don’t agree with that at all. Weird thing to upvote tbh.
Edit: Today I learned, when I advocate for trans rights, I get up votes. When I apply the same support to cis men, I get down voted.
I thought this is a supportive space in terms of gender identity. I guess I was wrong. I will continue to support trans people for the same reasons, I support everyone. Human rights.
The reason you’re getting downvoted is because you seem to be missing the point of the meme and then are getting argumentative.
What is the point of the meme? How is it not ridiculing/dismissing the desire of a man to feel manly? Something that rightfully usually finds support here for trans man.
Because it’s not ridiculing someone for feeling manly, it’s ridiculing the kind of person that goes around stating they’re manly as fuck all the time, going out of their way to show how manly they are and generally making “manliness” their entire personality.
Where does it say that?
The post in the picture, just completely dismiss any possibility other than a man wanting to feel superior.
That is the starting point, that is what I am talking about.
The comment in the picture provides us with a story and context but it is not the same story or context because it is a different user sharing their experience. I have no issue with that.
The reaction gif is implying that you aren’t a man if you express that you want to feel like one.
Where does it say that you say it says? Where does it state that it is about making it your entire personality? Where does it say, it is about people who want to show how manly they? Where does it state that they don’t like a man stating that they are so manly? It seems to be about the opposite. A man who struggles with feeling manly. Where does it state that it is something the person does all the time?
Some of these are inconsequential in some scenarios but all of them highlight how much you read in there that just is not present to justify toxic language and behavior.
Why is it you’re allowed to infer things the meme doesn’t say but I’m not?
What am I infer that it doesn’t say? I am willing to give that point up if you can make your case.
The reaction gif is implying that you aren’t a man if you express that you want to feel like one.
Doesn’t say that anywhere on the gif
You are correct, technically it doesn’t. It is about kings, and the poster tells you to replace king with man.
Also technically it is saying that a trans person who tells you that they are a man, is not a real man. I mean trans men are men.
But I don’t think that is a fair reading of the text. But sure you can read the message that I call toxic, as a toxic message to men in general and especially towards trans men. I just don’t see where you want to go with that.
Alternatively, and admittedly, I am reading it in the context of the post in which it is about men expressing that they want to feel manly. Still toxic, and implicitly transphobic, but at least matching the post.
I’d say it’s rather that a trans person shouldn’t prove anything to anyone, same as cis. If they feel the need to prove, that’s likely because of influence of toxic gender standards
Well I don’t know where you read the proving part. it is about feeling like a gender, not proving that you are. If you want to change topics, sure, we can talk about a different topic. Do you like Chinese food?
Do you like Chinese food?
Yes, I do. I also do think that you were also reading what wasn’t in the thread starter’s post
It is the logical conclusion of comment. Trans men are men. Unless you want to argue that they aren’t. Or that the men in the comments were implied to be cis men and then want to argue that cis and trans people should be treated differently to each other and therefore a trans man have every right to want to feel like a man but a cis man doesn’t.
It is the logical conclusion of comment
No, why?
Trans men are men.
Yes. And to be men the don’t need to say that. Visibility is another thing, and in that regard one might argue that they need, but I think that increasing trans visibility is not the same as ‘I am man’ statements
Edit:
a trans man have every right to want to feel like a man but a cis man doesn’t
To this I would also say ‘No’, but I’m starting to guess, we have a very different views on what it is to ‘feel like a man’
Okay the post talks about “needing to feel like a man”. (I am ignoring The comment on the picture because that is not what my issue is. My issue is the general statement in the post of the “aunt” in the picture and The comment section here) The comment is a reaction gifs and I think you agree that maybe you shouldn’t take reaction gifs 100% literally without any adaption to the context. Here the context is men FEELING manly. So I think it is fair to understand it as “if you have to say that you want to feel manly, you aren’t”
In that context, you can’t remove looking like a man, or maybe doing stereotypical man stuff, or anything that makes that person feel manly. The questions are, of course, what the fuck do you need to feel manly? What causes you to say that? What are you requiring?
All Women need to submit to you? Well that is completely unreasonable and you are an idiot. Not wanting to have your living room painted in pink, rather reasonable.
I heavily reject the notion that you or me get to decide what makes someone feel manly. If it is something that would require something from someone else, Of course, there are reasonable requests and unreasonable requests. And you can reject to fulfill them, you can even mock them if you want, but they aren’t less of a man for wanting to feel like one and painting that desire with a broad brush like in aunt’s post is also pretty bad (and probably sexist)
Maybe we have a different view on what it is to feel like a man. But if that is the case, then tell me, why are we judging men for expressing that they want to feel like a man without asking them what the fuck they mean? Because we would mean different things, so why wouldn’t they mean something else than you or me?
Normalize feeling like a man as somebody who is given space to feel anything beyond anger or shame. A man needs to feel like he can talk about things on his mind at any given time, to anybody he trusts. A man is somebody who can cry when he is hurting, and it be okay; that he won’t be labeled as weak or a coward.
Those aren’t traits of a man. Those are traits of a human. Both other than that, 100% agree a person needs that.
That’s the entire point. Traditionally, men are not treated like a human being. They are expected to be something else entirely, and it’s both not fair and infeasible.
I’m sorry you feel that way. But as a testicle-American I can say the feeling is not universal.
Look at Mr. Well-Adjusted over here.
Geekandmisandry. Misandry ie. someone who hates men.
Well at least you’re open about it. Many aren’t when they attack men.
Here’s the thing about “toxic masculinity”. Some people are toxic. Women and men tend to express that toxicity in different ways. Attacking an entire gender for the behaviour of the worst is stereotyping.
More broadly it’s part of the modern notion that we are on teams and that the other team is bad.
Of course both men and women can be toxic. The point of toxic masculinity as a term is to draw attention to the fact that there’s a certain brand of toxicity that has much more harmful outcomes in male-dominated spaces, for a variety of social and cultural reasons. It tends to be a rather controversial term mostly because it gets conflated with the idea that masculinity itself is toxic (which is not what it’s supposed to mean).
The discussion should be about the magnitude of the problem, not hand-waving it away because women do it too but in different ways. The “different ways” is kind of the whole point of the argument.
Also, that’s a lot of extrapolation you did simply from a username in a screenshot. Would you describe any of their actual words in the post as misandrist?
I mean, it pretty clearly implies “feeling like a man” is only a bad thing. That “feeling like a man” can only be done in ways that make others feel inferior. That seems pretty misandrous. to me. Enough to call misandry right away? No. But between that and the name, they’re starting to set a theme.
I got the impression that it’s fine for a man to “feel like a man” but that that needs to be something he finds on his own terms, and needs to come from within. It’s not something he gets to impose upon others, such that it demands their cooperation or subordination. If to anyone, masculinity requires them being superior to others… maybe they need to do some soul searching.
Perhaps the user’s name does contribute to a theme. I don’t see anything specifically wrong with what was mentioned in this post, but we would need more context to determine who’s in the wrong, Reddit AITA style.
Funny thing: only ever heard women say this
Yeah, but you’ve seen the dudes who have that anxiety thing going on about it. They’re not about to spell out their own repressed embarrassing stuff.
Some women are the most toxic perpetuators a patriarchy in a backwards way
If a woman questions your masculinity, that’s the biggest red flag.
It’s not “patriarchy”, it’s the collective of the social norms and pressures put in place by, perpetrated by, and maintained by, the majority of both sexes. The word implies it’s males’ fault society is the way it is, which is demonstrably bullshit.
I mean… No? I dont see where it would imply that its men fault. The word mean that men rule. The ODE define it by “a society, system, or country that is ruled or controlled by men” And the argument that both gender (sexes may not be the best word for what you were trying to say) are maintaining the system hold some truth, But you can t deny that men did vote in favour of the rapist in the last US election , or that it is men that are leading a war against feminism in Skorea.
I mean… No? I dont see where it would imply that its men fault. The word mean that men rule.
But they don’t. Which is my point–people like you assert this is the case, so that when stuff is shitty, you can say things like ‘well, the men are in charge, so if it’s bad, it’s men’s fault’, and in turn imply that women have zero agency in society and exist as nothing more than victims. You seem not to realize how deeply misogynistic it is to infantilize women this way, not to mention misandrist as well.
99.9% of men have no ‘ruling’ power whatsoever–they’re in the weeds right alongside the 99.9% of women who also don’t. To categorize either sex as ‘the ruler’ in American or any Western society is absolutely ridiculous.
But you can t deny that men did vote in favour of the rapist in the last US election
The majority of US voters are women. If all of the women voted for the same candidate, that candidate would be guaranteed to win, every time.
But all of the women didn’t do that, did they? Well, guess what? Neither did all of the men.
Well over thirty million women voted for Trump. Stop stereotyping the sexes and acting like they’re hiveminds, it’s plainly sexist bullshit.
Face it: the blame for any societal ill does not belong to one sex.
But you can t deny that men did vote in favour of the rapist in the last US election
So did women. 44% of them according to statistica
Yes women enforce the patriarchy too but as i was saying men are the main enforcer.
because its not only men perpetuating this shit, some just put up with it and guide younger women on how to gently move things along and the flimsy little dude forgets and gets mad about the next dumb thing. Literally my parents…
Just don’t cast shit on a man that’s had enough of it from his work or society. Sometimes we just want to feel human.
Every human wants to be treated humanely. This is not exclusive to men. Neither is having a rough time due to one’s job or society.
You’re making the all lives matter argument
Lol. Kay.
That holds true from all genders to all genders, it isn’t a uniquely “man” thing.
Yeah yeah all lives matter. This thread is about men tho.
Well, yes it is. But there is a lack of care about men at this time, and it is actually not a good thing. The patriarchy is bad for everyone.
LOL! Almost that exact phrase is what I use whenever my wife asks me why I’m peeing outside in my backyard instead of just going inside to the bathroom.
National trust is in favour of peeing in the garden. Can be good for some plants!
As a biological male and someone who identifies as a man, it’s pretty weak, IMO, to need someone else to make you feel a particular way.
Are you in control of your feelings, or do you constantly need someone else to reinforce, or induce a feeling in you?
Personally, I’m in control of my feelings, and bluntly, nobody else has control over me. Neither for how I feel, or what I think/do; with the only exception to what I do being governed in part by legality. Eg. If I know a thing isn’t legal to do, then I won’t do that thing. Beyond the rule of law, I do, think, say, and feel, whatever, and however I want.
To me, having that much control over my own self is what makes me a person living in a free country. Anyone who does not have the ability, like I do, to think, feel, do, and love, whomever and, whatever they want, is someone who I want to support in gaining that right.
This seems …um… naive. I love my wife and her opinion of me affects my feelings. And the more I care about my wife, the more I love her, the more her opinion of me matters. Humans are social creatures and we look for positive feedback from the people we care most about. To pretend like this doesn’t matter is silly.
I understand your point here.
People we care about should be people we care to make happy, and who we want to make us happy.
I’m speaking more about agency. I use my own agency to limit whose opinion can even move the needle to my emotions. I decide whether their comments are something I should “take to heart” or disregard as an outburst.
Personally I separate myself from most situations and emotional involvement and look at things from a neutral, logical standpoint before I allow myself and my own feelings to be affected by what may, or may not be said in the moment.
I don’t need anyone to do anything to make me feel happy, or like a man. I control that. I’m not going to blame anyone for how I feel.
If you don’t feel happy, or you don’t “feel like a man” (whatever that means to you), the answers to why you feel that way, or how you inspire those feelings in yourself are entirely within your power to control. You have agency over your feelings.
My SO, when she compliments me, makes me feel good, but I don’t need her to constantly placate me with compliments in order to feel valuable, appreciated, happy, or “like a man”.
It is emotionally healthy to look inward for happiness and satisfaction. Relying on the acceptance and platitudes from others to feel okay is codependent. I don’t understand why anyone would want to give their agency over their feelings and emotions, wholly and completely over to others.
The idea of controlling your feelings seems laughable. If you have control they aren’t feelings, just thoughts. You cant really control thoughts either, just control what you do with them. Except we know that humans in general don’t have great control of our actions either. We just have to live in this comfortable little lie where we have control over ourselves despite all evidence to the contrary in order to maintain a remotely reasonable society, but it’s not real any more than your belief that you control your feelings.
While I don’t think anyone has complete control of their own emotions, I do think some measure of control is possible through manipulation of one’s own facial expression, posture, breathing & thought patterns.
Right you can hack your lizard brain with deep breathing to calm yourself down, but that seems like even more proof the you you think you are is only barely in charge of this mess we call a brain. If you can’t calm down you can trick your body into calming down which then calms “you” down. Personally I tend to think the you you are is just a verbal processing system that retroactively analyzes what the rest of your brain does. If the reaction is slow enough, you can sometimes take charge and we call that modicum of authority “self control”.
The whole microexpression thing, if valid, takes the facial expressions thing off the table.
Posture is…I guess controllable as a bulk coordinated muscle movement but tbh no clue why that’s relevant.
Personally I tend to think the you you are is just a verbal processing system that retroactively analyzes what the rest of your brain does.
I seem to remember reading that research of certain brain disorders has shown exactly that… Basically, without a functional corpus callosum, one side of your brain does something, then the other side (that had nothing to do with it) comes up with a reason why “it” did it.
There’s a saying that stuck with me: “feelings are never wrong”.
Your feelings are a fact of your continued human existence. Unless you’re a psychopath or sociopath (or whatever) and you literally don’t feel, your feelings simply are.
From there I determined that feelings can be inspired incorrectly from a given happenstance. While you may initially feel offended by something that is said, it’s neither necessary to continue being offended, nor is it necessary to always have that reaction to that given happenstance. Accepting yourself as you are is vitally important in restructuring who you want to be.
This is all borderline cognitive behavioural therapy. Training yourself to be the best version of you that you can be. I’ve been dabbling in CBT techniques for most of my life. I wasn’t aware that it was CBT when I started working on myself in this capacity, but I’ve recently learned that a lot of the techniques I’ve been using to better myself, and increase my agency and control over my own mind and emotions, is used in CBT.
I would agree that some thoughts are not controllable. We all get intrusive thoughts and impulses that we choose whether we want to act on them. Whether that action is to open your mouth and speak those thoughts aloud, or type them out, or to take action based on those thoughts.
The thoughts and actions you describe I understand to be system 1 thinking. Aka, thinking fast. There’s a great book on this called “thinking: fast and slow” which covers the ideas. Basically system 1 is your “fast” thinking, heuristic/instinctual/“muscle memory” systems. It’s your “knee jerk” reactions and your first thought on something. System 2 is your contemplative and analytical systems, aka, “thinking slow”. System 2 can educate system 1, which is how we form habits and “muscle memory”
System 1, we have little immediate control over since the majority of our sapience is fully embedded in system 2.
I would agree that there’s a nontrivial number of people going around under only the learned behaviors from system 1, and doing very little analysis of what’s happening by utilizing system 2.
People in general like receiving positive feedback. There is no need to assign feedback to gender roles.
I agree.
If I may ask, did you feel the need to post this because you felt that I was portraying the opposite, or are you building on the point?
I’m hoping it’s the latter, but if it’s the former, please tell me what I said that made you feel that way. I’m always trying to improve my communication.
I have to feel that “a woman needs to feel like a woman” wouldn’t get a similar reaction.
I’m not so sure. If I went around standing at doors waiting for them to be opened for me, I think it might get laughed at.
Lots of women do this, mostly very young ones with fresh naive boyfriends but its definitely not unheard of for a woman to act that way. Not that that excuses the men who behave like this also.
I once got told off by a woman in The Netherlands (to were I had immigrated from my native Portugal) for holding the door open for her and had to explain that it wasn’t for her, it was because it made me feel good to be helpful and I did it for both men and women (if you’ve already gone to the trouble of openning the door, might as well keep it open for somebody who is just behind you).
I just found it funny how a cultural habit from somewhere else that wasn’t even gender specific got interpreted as macho posturing.
Yeah, and they really need extreme effort to cater to. Maybe it just doesn’t come so naturally for me in the spectrum, but it feels like a whole awful game balancing act that exists to let the other person think they’re in charge.
Traditionally, societal opionions of how a woman should be involved her making herself appealing to men before married and submissive to her husband afterwards.
I would even say that “a man needs to feel like a man” and “a woman needs to feel like a woman” are two sides of the same original coin - it’s just that in modern days the latter is frowned upon much more (though, sadly, a lot of people still go around with an interiorized version of it) than the former.
That sounds very TERF IMO, they’re also hated
Yeah, whenever anybody talks like this, I just assume they’re talking about traditional gender roles. So, “a woman needs to feel like a woman” gives me the ick, too.
It sounds like something terfs would say to explain why being a tradwife is good and desirable.
Why is that the direction you’re taking this? Have you not once noticed how women have a whole set of unspoken rules and shit that you gotta do to be part of their show?
That sort of could be interpreted as “a woman needs to know her place”.
How to really feel like a man
- Ignore gender wars bait, there are way more important things out there.
- See step 1
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You just fell on the first hurdle
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You:
Yeah, first time hearing “a man wants to feel like a man”
My first interpretation was a bunch of guys fighting with sticks and everyone having a blast
There are fun casual LARP or Nerf groups all over the place. Most of them would love to have more people coming out to the park on the weekend. Bring friends, or make some while you’re there!
Are you male? The phrase is primarily said to women which might be why you’re unfamiliar with it if so.
Sometimes you find a really great stick. I’ve got one on my porch right now.
And if i have to pretend that your ass looks good for you to feel good about your ass, your ass doesn’t look good.
Now let’s get past the idea that relationships don’t involve theater for our partner’s benefit.
Pride come before the fall
Ooooohhhhh…
Thats why pride month is in june
I get it now.
Leo is mostly in August though, so August should be pride month.
My partner calls that Leo season
Oh! They call Autumn Fall in America.
I get it now.
