• PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    51·
    13 days ago

    Ah, we have a difference in terms here.

    Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality

    is never ableist.

    Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality

    can be ableist, depending on what values are being cast.

    I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality is acknowledging intelligence as a quality.

    It’s about how intelligence is framed in relation to others and whether it’s used to dismiss people who might not fit those standards.

    So it’s your opinion that the upholding of standards that cannot be met by some individuals by inherent lack of capacity is unacceptable?

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
      2·
      13 days ago

      Acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality is acknowledging intelligence as a quality.

      Here’s an example where it’s not: “Of course you got in, you [are(n’t) Asian/were in the gifted program/have ASD].”

      These examples are rare bifecta of ✅ acknowledging intelligence as a positive quality ✅ casting value judgement on those who do or do not fit that quality

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        32·
        13 days ago

        I don’t see how that doesn’t acknowledge intelligence as a quality.

        Like, I’m not trying to play this off as some kind of rebuttal, I’m just genuinely not understanding what’s being said.

        casting value judgement on those who do or do not fit that quality

        But all acknowledgements of intelligence as a positive quality necessarily carry an implicit value judgement of those who lack that positive quality.

        • spujb@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
          2·
          13 days ago

          But all acknowledgements of intelligence as a positive quality necessarily carry an implicit value judgement of those who lack that positive quality.

          Maybe for you, but not for me. I can congratulate the Olympic gold medalist for her achievement without having any repressive or denigrating judgment toward all the other competitors. Can’t you? The value judgement I express in that scenario is, at worst, neutral.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4·
            13 days ago

            I can congratulate the Olympic gold medalist for her achievement without having any repressive or denigrating judgment toward all the other competitors. Can’t you? The value judgement I express in that scenario is, at worst, neutral.

            Tell me, if someone has a positive quality, and another lacks that quality, the difference between them is:

            A. Positive

            B. Neutral

            C. Negative

            ?

            • spujb@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
              0·
              13 days ago

              I don’t understand your question I’m sorry. But can’t you congratulate the medalist without doing judgement on the non-medalists?

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
                32·
                13 days ago

                Any congratulations of the medalists necessarily implies that they have done better than the non-medalists. While the intent is not to denigrate, it is, implicitly, denigration of the results, whether deserved or undeserved, of the non-medalists. Any positive judgement necessarily creates a vacuum of negative judgement for those who do not meet it, and unless you regard all things as value-indistinguishable, such positive judgements are inevitably made.

                • spujb@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
                  1·
                  13 days ago

                  You perceive one value scale:

                  • better/worse

                  I perceive two entirely separate, non-causal scales.

                  • Good at back handsprings/bad at back handsprings
                  • greater in value or explicit worth/lesser in value or explicit worth
                  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    1·
                    12 days ago

                    That implies that you put no valuation on back handsprings, even in the context of the Olympics. Which would make any praise of it very empty.