Why YSK: Beehaw defederated from Lemmy.World and Sh.itjust.works effectively shadowbanning anyone from those instances. You will not be able to interact with their users or posts.
Is there any reason for them defederating?
It’s nominally a personnel/time issue. It’s easier to defederate with rapidly growing instances than try and keep tabs on the flood of posts which are coming in from them. Lemmy.World, at least for a time, was still federated with some shitstances, also out of manpower limitations, and beehaw decided to just take their ball and leave. It’s the way federation works and is entirely up to them, just as reddit raising api costs and kicking moderators is within their rights. Your server, your rules. We can argue whether it’s the best way to manage and build a small platform, but its the state of things at the moment.
disc: I’m a member of lemmy.world, as well as a smaller lemmy instance and kbin, both of which are still federated with beehaw.
Lemmy got a large influx of new people (you probably noticed that), and those new people weren’t reading their gidelines (that are more strict than usual) before posting there.
If you decide to make an account there, make sure to read their guidelines first.
Nice. Its been just 2 days for me using lemmy and im already banned for no reason in an entire server that i do not use just because im in another server. I whana say reddit moment but im getting mixed info into their reasoning. Some say its because they cant mod that much people and just defederated temporarilly while they fix stuff and others say their a radical echochamber that doesnt tolerate any slight deviants. So i dobt know what to believe. If any of ya m8s could enligthen me some more that’l be sweet. Thank you.
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Im sorry m8, i dont whana be an ass but… i dont understeand what you are trying to say in this part:" Until users are happy at 1984 instance (beehaw is even worst) that’s okay," what did you mean?
Q
They pretend to defend their users from ‘bad’ instances. Until users are happy at 1984 instance (beehaw is even worst) that’s okay, otherwise there are still options to register at some normal instance, which let users decide themselves what they should see or not.
It has nothing to do with defending their users and they never even fucking claimed that was what it was about. You are making shit up to be mad about, JFC.
Most normal users won’t care about any of this because it’ll shake itself out quickly as has happened with Mastodon. But if you do care, join up with a smaller server that plays nice with everybody and enjoy the whole fediverse.
this, then :
Selfhosting
Last I checked, their reason for defederating is to avoid the high influx of new wildcard users from large instances without vetting processes.
As for the radical echo chamber part, I can’t say for sure because I didn’t actually interact with them but I recall the term they make you agree to apply for an account was somewhat vague, possibly allowing arbitrary bans to enforce an echo chamber.
I disagree simply on the basis that they hope to refederate eventually, and it might be good to already be subbed. But yeah.
I’m sure it will be announced. It will be big lemmy news, hard to miss.
Okay, guess I just won’t use it then if they defed from my primary instance. Glad they did this now and not later when they became bigger and more important.
If they’re that into making a safe space then fine. Hopefully some other people will also make more free spaces and both of them can exist and everyone can be happy.
I realize that is a highly optimistic outlook to put it mildly. I must remain hopeful to avoid losing my mind, if I haven’t already -.-
shrugs It sounds like they’d happily refederate once the right mod tools are available.
Seems like a pretty reasonable request. Hopefully they get the tools they’re after and then everyone can be even more connected again!
Well this didn’t take long to start spiraling
Wow so much misinformed hostility against Beehaw here. The mod tools for Lemmy are currently limited and they just want to protect their community from trolls and spam. There’s no conspiracy here to break federation.
True, but unsubbed from them when it happened because I don’t want to see communities I can’t interact with.
Why add to the problem and have frustration with wanting to discuss something you are blocked from?
They have every right to protect themselves against spam. But that said, ever since they defederated, their activity and user numbers are down.
Good. Serves 'em right.
Eh, there were a few posts about this on lemmy.world when it happened. People went through beehaw’s modlog and could only find a handful of actions taken against both communities.
Seems they just want to have their own little bubble.
Safe spaces are pretty much that. I would actually like to join beehaw if I ever need to switch to an instance for my own sanity. I left reddit but it’s followed us here so I think a more curated experience would be nice.
That is unless they’re nazis, fascists, authoritarian or any other kind of violent extremist faction. I’m sick of having no faith in humanity because of all these backwards ideologies being “expressed”. To quote Costanza, these pretzels are making me thirsty.
Yep, I applied to join when I was fresh and it asks about how active applicants are. I was honest and said I wasn’t the most active person but that I did participate in the subs that I used the most. Was trying to be honest and didn’t see any red flags with that. They still denied me, so fuck beehaw
Beehaw is some pseudo moral purity echo chamber. They consider anyone with a contrary opinion a troll. People create these “safe spaces” under the guise of protecting minority groups, but fuck… I’m a minority, and I knew immediately I wasn’t going to be welcome there.
People are free to judge it as they please.
–edit–
Why aren’t other instances having this problem? Like if trolls and spam are such an issue, why do I only see relevant on topic comments in other instances?
The issue isn’t trolls, it’s political dissent. And if you care about the truth, if you care about having the ability to talk about and express your ideas freely to other people, to have uncomfortable discussions with people you disagree with, to be exposed to new ideas, and fuck… to possibly even change your mind, you shouldn’t support beehaw.
If you genuinely want that type of environment, go for it, but that place should be called out for what it is.
This type of political authoritianism is why I left Reddit. It kills discussion, and I’m here for critical discussion.
Why would you not be welcome? Is it for your political opinions? Even if it were, I don’t think they would personally shun you unless it entails attacking minorities.
That aside, and having said that of course it is everyone’s perrogative to judge this behavior, I personally feel it is an exaggeration. Not every instance is about free speech nor should they be, at the end of the day the fediverse is about creating communities, one is able and should shape them into what their vision of that is. This is not authoritarianism, in this case they said it is due to their inability to moderate.
Even if it weren’t for that, it is good that communities don’t federate with every instance, aa I said, not everyone is about free speech and changing opinions some are here to have a good time and for that adequate protection is necessary.
I myself prefer deciding myself when to block other instances, so I joined one that let’s users decide. But if other instances decided to block us I would understand and either move on or join another instance to interact with them without thinking much about it (having multiple accounts is kind of easy on the apps,)
I think I’m kind of used from servers blocking one another from my time on mastodon and I’ve seen the necessity of the practice, for example an anime focused group blocking bot instances, brigading, alt right groups, etc.
This is not authoritarianism, in this case they said it is due to their inability to moderate.
Rationally I think this is straight bullshit. Their inability to moderate is because of the desire to control the political direction of topics. If people want an echo chamber, fine, but I’m calling it out.
If people want an echo chamber, fine, but I’m calling it out.
Yes, that was always allowed. Beehaw is extremely up front about the kinds of voices and perspectives welcome on it. It never claimed to be a bastion of free speech. Complaining about that is like saying you don’t like a burger restaurant because they don’t serve sushi.
Dude this is a discussion based website, and you’re complaining about me complaining? Pot meet kettle.
you’re complaining about me complaining?
I think it was Alexander Pope who once said that bad criticism does more harm than bad writing. Same principle applies here. Your criticism is bad. You don’t like getting “called out on it,” then make a better one.
Dude I’m voicing my opinion. You apparently don’t even disagree you just dislike like I’m expressing it? What’s your deal?
Fine, I just don’t get the echo chamber feeling but admittedly I only use beehive for gaming/anime/escapism hobby related communities so I haven’t seen it being all about conteolling politics, at least not directly.
At the end of the day I barely get what you mean by controlling politics, since it is not apparent on the communities I visit. Also keep in mind, I’m not american so if this is about the culture war over there or a republicans vs democrats thing I probably won’t notice it since it hasn’t affected any discussion I’ve had.
But I would need concrete examples for me to see it as authoritarian because in a vacuum as I explained I can see communities pulling this kind of conduct without it being about controlling the discourse per se but more about helping communities.
Edit: forgot to say, but if it was over politics I don’t think that would necessitate a ban lemmy.world (or alternative ly that would mean complete defederation) since it has no clear political affiliation, I see it just it being massive and difficult to moderate otherwise they would have targeted many other toxic instances way before touching .world.
Beehaw lost me when admins allowed a female user to repeatedly insult men, say 95% of them are awful, that men shouldn’t even exist etc they claim they’re a “safe, welcoming space” but it’s actually hypocritical.
They defederated from this and other instances and yet I’ve never seen any comments reaching that level of hostility here. The only way to interpret that is that they actually are okay with insults and bigotry as long as it suits their whims. If a man had made the same remarks it’d be written off as the rantings of an incel and they’d likely be banned.
I should be their target audience as someone who has voted left my entire life and it’s too much and too controlled for me. Either they’re for all equality and inclusiveness or they’re not. Pick one.
I reckon this will hurt Lemmy in the long run
@[email protected] , you should add a link to the announcement which explains why Beehaw defederated since this looks to be the top question many are asking.
Those are good points. Time to find a different instance. My account is not precious. Supporting a sustainable growth is.
The slowness of Lemmy.world to defederate from the fascists, and now this makes me feel I can find a better home. A home that is a better partner to the fediverse.
tldr; too hard to mod. That’s pretty dumb, but the cool thing with the fedi is you can just not care and swap instances.
Lmao they literally want to protect their ‘safe space’ 🤣
I mean, they can do what they want but it just seems like they can’t handle the mod work. There aren’t that many users yet.
Lmao they literally want to protect their ‘safe space’ 🤣
I mean, they can do what they want but it just seems like they can’t handle the mod work. There aren’t that many users yet.
I blocked peehaw when they first pulled this. They can live in their own little bubble
How to block entire instances?
Instance admins can do it.
You can’t. Not unless you run your own instance of Lemmy and defederate them.
It’s getting pretty tiring to see people feeling entitled to have access to any and all communities of the Fediverse, if the people paying for the running cost of the Beehaw instance wants to defederate (for whatever reason, “good” or “bad”), that’s their prerogative.
If you really want access to their content, apply to join, otherwise sign up to any of the dozens of lemmy instances federated to the rest of the fediverse.
One of the great things about the Fediverse in general is choice, user and instance admin can choose how they want to interact, and are not beholden to a company or group which can take any arbitrary decisions they want.
TLDR : Instance admin are entitled to how they want to run it, you’re not.
Ah, in less than 48 hours we’ve come full circle.
What beautiful dawns await us.
Ah, in less than 48 hours we’ve come full circle.
What beautiful dawns await us.
Ah, in less than 48 hours we’ve come full circle.
What beautiful dawns await us.
Ah, in less than 48 hours we’ve come full circle.
What beautiful dawns await us.
I signed up through sh.itjust.works - was this a bad idea? Only opened my account 2 days ago so learning the ropes.
Nothing is stopping you to register on multiple and see how each one feels, then stick to the one you like most. Instances with application process tend to have a bit more curated user bases and that’s reflected in conversations where they participate. You could try lemmy.world, Beehaw, lemmy.ml, or any other instance.
Don’t worry about it, sh.itjust.works is a popular instance and Beehaw just want to do their own thing. Unless there’s a specific community hosted on Beehaw that you really want to be a part of you probably won’t notice, as most popular subjects have communities on other servers.
I’m entitled to leave to another instance. One of the main things to look at when choosing an instance is who they are federated/defederated with. I would never join BeeHaw Lemmy.world, or Sh.itjust.works because of their feud. I’d rather join a third party instance and have access to all the content on all three.
Until the instance you choose to set up on ends up in a feud with any, or all of those instances.
The whole fediverse experiment is going to end up with a number of small, highly segregated communities, and even more political polarization. I guess if you want to live in an echo chamber, a federated environment is the best way to go about it.
If you really want access to their content, apply to join, otherwise sign up to any of the dozens of lemmy instances federated to the rest of the fediverse.
I think it was pretty clear, yeah
I’m criticizing people criticizing people for criticizing people who criticize people who criticize…
You’re just as tiring as the people you’re criticizing.
Well they can keep to themselves. But are they trying to be the Amish of Lemmy or a large scale version of r/historians?
No they were getting a large influx of trolls and spam from communities with open sign ups so they temporarily defederated as a way to protect the instance. Not sure I wouldve made the same call but I can absolutely understand why they did it and we shouldn’t have any ill will towards beehaw at all in my opinion.
this is completely reasonable, they own the instance and should be able to do whatever they want with it.
Aren’t you only “shadow banned” from users of that instance? Wouldn’t folks federated with your instance still see your comments?
My understanding is that Lemmy isn’t peer-to-peer, it’s more like hub-and-spoke, relative to the instance that the community is on.
So if users on B and C are interacting with a post on A, then it’s the responsibility of A to be the postman and handle the syncing between A<>B and A<>C; B and C don’t directly talk in this case.
Thus, nobody outside of Lemmyworld sees posts from Lemmyworld made on Beehaw communities, because Beehaw doesn’t accept them, and therefore doesn’t pass them along to the other instances, either.
I recommend reading this post on lemmy.world for a very clear understanding of how the defederation affects these instances: https://lemmy.world/post/149743
Pretty sure that’s right.
That’s confusing. Let’s say that there is antance A, B and C. (Instance A is Beehaw) Now let’s say A bans C, but not B. And B hasn’t banned anyone. That would mean instance A would still see the comments of C, when replying to B, right? If so, people from Instance A would feel like they are being gaslit more then people blocked from instance C.
Doesn’t ‘gaslit’ mean convincing someone they’re making things up? Or is that all in my head?
Gaslighting doesn’t exist, you made it up
Oh it definitely exists. Ask anyone who has experienced living/working/dealing with a narcissist.
I think they were joking…
Lmao. Well, woosh!
I guess I’ve just had too many real arguments with people on reddit about this and this comment flew right past me. :D
But can C see A through B?
If someone from lemmy.world posts to a BeeHaw community right now, I know BeeHaw users won’t be able to see the post, but what about other lemmy.world users? What about users from kbin.social or any other instance? If people from other instances can still see the comments that seems like you could still have a conversation, just with a group of people that can’t see it. Not sure how it works though, so curious if anyone here knows for sure.
If you’re from Lemmy.World and post in a Beehaw.org community then Lemmy.World users will still see your post. But no other instance will. This is because all other instances look to Beehaw to get Beehaw posts. And without Beehaw federation your post never makes it to Beehaw and therefore it never reaches/gets relayed to other instances.
My understanding is that other users on the same home instance would still be able to see each other’s content.
Well this didn’t take long to start spiraling
