A very NSFW website called Pornpen.ai is churning out an endless stream of graphic, AI-generated porn. We have mixed feelings.
I think words like “thirsty” and “thirst trap” are self defeating. Actual thirst is your body’s biological response to a need for water. Without water, you’ll die. Calling porn sites “thirst traps” suggests that people have a critical need for porn - which is often contrary to the point the author is trying to make.
Arguing about the ethics or morality of something that’s “necessary” for survival is irrelevant. Anyone who’s against pornography is perfectly within their rights to share their opinion, but they should avoid the word “thirst”.
Edit: I know the issue of pornography can evoke strong feelings in some, but I’m only talking about word choice, folks.
I’m also not one of those tiresome people people who refuses to admit that they’re wrong, and acts like a child when faced with sound opposition. If someone would actually put their opinion into words, instead of just downvoting, I’d appreciate it.
Dude, what
I just think the word “thirst” is a bad choice, that’s all.
This is a good hill to die on, and I applaud you for it.
*stabs him*Lol read the reply from @Ropianos. It’s good.
Man, you really do sound like a redditor.
A redditor would try to hide their gross opinion behind a thin veneer of logic. I’m not getting into the ethics of porn at all.
I’m just talking about phrasing. I think “thirst” is a poor analogy.
I think words like “thirsty” and “thirst trap” are self defeating. Actual thirst is your body’s biological response to a need for water. Without water, you’ll die. Calling porn sites “thirst traps” suggests that people have a critical need for porn - which is often contrary to the point the author is trying to make.
a thin veneer of logic
He’s right. You’re not actually listening to what he’s saying at all. You’re the one who sounds like a redditor.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thirsty
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thirst traps
The author isn’t using thirsty, like you’re thirsty for water. They are using the slang version.
I can see how you would misunderstand without knowing that.
It’s slang. There are tons of words in every language that don’t make sense but get used a certain way because that’s how people use them. Next thing you’re gonna tell me is that in the 1980s when people called things bad you were upset because they actually meant good.
Consider another association with thirst: Desperation. In the mind of the author porn consumption is negative so anyone consuming porn is doing this out of desperation, despite knowing better. It essentially describes people being controlled by their base instincts. And thus this site is a trap, luring people against their will.
That is how I would interpret the word thirst in this context anyway. It’s not about a critical need, it’s about thirst being irrational and highly compulsive.
Awesome! Thank you! This is the kind of thought provoking response I was hoping for.
Additionally, it’s a really good point. I totally missed this interpretation, and I think it’s better than mine.
Sure, no worries! I haven’t been disappointed yet by responding to downvoted comments so I will keep doing it :)
Just another similar metaphor: Power hungry. Not the stove kind but the dictator kind. To be honest, there are quite a lot of body related metaphors, e.g. drowning in trouble, blinded by ambition. I guess it comes down to evoking some strong emotion.
I think a lot of people (myself included) are used to the combative, hostile environment of reddit. An actual friendly disagreement is a foreign concept to them. Personally, I enjoy it when other people present different perspectives. It’s both interesting and a great way to learn.
And yeah, “power hungry” has a similar vibe. Nice!
Totally agree, though I haven’t really participated that much on Reddit. Seems like any disagreement is quickly framed as trolling over there.
Yeah. People are very defensive, because even the insinuation of disagreement is taken as a personal attack. It gets into your head, and takes a while to get over. You forget that reasonable, well-meaning conversations are even possible. It sucks. I’ll never go back.
That’s hardly even an interpretation. Thirst and hunger as verbs have always meant to desire something.
Went and had a look and it’s some of the funniest stuff I’ve seen all day! A few images come close to realism but a lot of them are the sort AI fever dream stuff that you could not make up.
I am a little surprised that no one had created a site like this for child pornography.
I am not a legal expert, but my layman’s understanding of Ashcroft v Free Speech Coalition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition is that as long as there is no person being harmed by it CSAM is legal.
Maybe later rulings have changed this. One can hope.
You’d also have to convince them that it’s not real. It’ll probably end up creating laws tbh. Then there are weird things like Japan where lolis are legal, but uncensored genitals aren’t, even drawn.
Surely we should know, right? Cartoons or hentai or whatever must have gone through this at some point?
Typically, the laws get amended so that anything that looks like CSAM is now CSAM. Expect porn generators tuned for minor characters to get outlawed very quickly.
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I remember reading that this may be already happening to some extent, eg people sharing tips on creating it on the deep web, maybe through prompt engineer, fine tuning or pretraining.
I don’t know how those models are made, but I do wonder the ones that need retraining/finetuning by using real csam can be classified as breaking the law.
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If a search engine cannot index it then it is the deep web. So yes, Discord chats are technically part of the deep web.
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Wikipedia on the deep web
The deep web,[1] invisible web,[2] or hidden web[3] are parts of the World Wide Web whose contents are not indexed by standard web search-engine programs.
Try accessing a Discord channel through your browser without being logged in. They aren’t indexed by search engines because you have to be logged in.
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I don’t care about some arbitrary challenge to get money from you. I’m trying to get you to think critically. If search engines like Google don’t index it then it’s part of the deep web. Just because things like Discord aren’t what people typically mean when people talk about the deep web doesn’t make Discord chats not part of the deep web.
CivitAI is a pretty perverted site at the best of times. But there’s a disturbing amount of age adjustment plugins to make images of children on the same site they have plugins to make sex acts. It’s clear some people definitely are.
Some models also prefer children for some reason and then you have to put mature/adult in positive prompt and child in negative
I think part of the problem is that there is a lot of anime in the models and when you don’t filter that out with negative prompts it can distort the proportions of realistic images (e.g. everybody gets huge breasts unless you negative prompt it away). In general models are always heavily biased towards what they were trained on, and when you use a prompt or LORA that worked well on one model on another, you can get weird results. There is always a lot of nudging involved with keywords and weights to get the images to were you want it.
Well, to develop such a service, you need training data, i.e. lots of real child pornography in your possession.
Legality for your viewers will also differ massively around the world, so your target audience may not be very big.
And you probably need investors, which likely have less risky projects to invest into.
Well, and then there’s also the factor of some humans just not wanting to work on disgusting, legal grey area stuff.
Unfortunately, no, you just need training data on children in general and training data with legal porn, and these tools can combine it.
It’s already being done, which is disgusting but not surprising.
People have worried about this for a long time. I remember a subplot of a sci-fi series that got into this. (I think it was The Lost Fleet, 15 years ago).
yup, just like the ai needed lots of pictures of astronaughts on horses to make pictures of those…
Exactly. Some of these engines are perfectly capable of combining differing concepts. In your example, it knows basically what a horse looks like, and what a human riding on horseback looks like. It also knows that an astronaut looks very much like a human without a space suit and can put the two together.
Saying nothing of the morality, In this case, I suspect that an AI could be trained using pictures of clothed children perhaps combined with nude images of people who are of age and just are very slim or otherwise have a youthful appearance.
While I think it’s repugnent in concept, I also think that for those seeking this material, I’d much rather it be AI generated than an actual exploited child. Realistically though, I doubt that this would actually have any notable impact to the prevalence of CSAM, and might even make it more accessible.
Furthermore, if the generative AI gets good enough, it could make it difficult to determine whether an image is real or AI generated. That would make it more difficult for police to find the child and offender to try to remove them from that situation. So now we need an AI to help analyze and separate the two.
Yeah… I don’t like living in 2023 and things are only getting worse. I’ve put way more thought into this than I ever wanted to.
Aren’t AI generated images pretty obvious to detect from noise analysis? I know there’s no effective detection for AI generated text, and not that there won’t be projects to train AI to generate perfectly realistic images, but it’ll be a while before it does fingers right, let alone invisible pixel artifacts.
As a counterpoint, won’t the prevalence of AI generated CSAM collapse the organized abuse groups, since they rely on the funding from pedos? If genuine abuse material is swamped out by AI generated imagery, that would effectively collapse an entire dark web market. Not that it would end abuse, but it would at least undercut the financial motive, which is progress.
That’s pretty good for 2023.
With StableDiffusion you can intentionally leave an “invisible watermark” that machines can easily detect but humans cannot see. The idea being that in the future you don’t accidentally train on already AI generated images. I’d hope most sites are doing that but it can be turned off easily enough. Apart from that I’m not sure.
I could have sworn I saw an article talking about how there were noise artifacts that were fairly obvious, but now I can’t turn anything up. The watermark should help things, but outside of that it looks like there’s just a training dataset of pure generative AI images (GenImage) to train another AI to detect generated images. I guess we’ll see what happens with that.
There was an article the other day about underage girls in France having AI nudes spread around based on photos as young as 12. Definitely harm there.
You haven’t been to 4chan lately because that’s exactly what it’s being used for
Hentai maybe. But realistic shit is 100% illegal, even just making such an AI would require breaking the law as you’d have to use real CSAM to train it.
I’m sure they’re out there on the deep web.
While amazing, most of these are hilariously wrong. Let’s just say the girl with 4 bellybuttons was the more tame incorrect thing I saw.
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That’s very wishful thinking, I’m afraid.
Reduced, maybe, but I don’t think it will impact things significantly. The types of people who participate in that do not want an alternative because they do it because they want to hurt and abuse a real person. They want to have power over another human being and make them suffer. An endless stream of porn isn’t going to fix that sickness.
Not sure how people will be so into this shit. It’s all so generic looking
The actual scary use case for AI porn is that if you can get 50 or more photos of the same person’s face (almost anyone with an Instagram account), you can train your own LoRA model to generate believable images of them, which means you can now make “generic looking” porn with pretty much any person you want to see in it. Basically the modern equivalent of gluing cutouts of your crush’s face onto the Playboy centerfold, only with automated distribution over the Internet…
Using a LoRA was the old way, these days you can use Roop, FaceSwapLab or ReActor, which not only can work with as little as a single good photo, they also produce better locking results than LoRA. There is no time consuming training either, just drag&drog an image and you get results in a couple of seconds.
So how will any progressive politician be able to be elected then? Because all the fascists would have to do is generate porn with their opponent’s likeness to smear them.
Or even worse, deepfake evidence of rape.
Or even worse than that, generate CSAM with their likeness portrayed abusing a child.
They could use that to imprison not only their political opponents, but anyone for anything, and people would think whoever is being disappeared this week actually is a pedophile or a rapist and think nothing of it.
Actual victims’ movements would be chopped off at the knee, because now there’s no definitive way to prove an actual rape happened since defendants could credibly claim real videos are just AI generated crap and get acquitted. No rape or abuse claims would ever be believed because there is now no way to establish objective truth.
This would leave the fascists open to do whatever they want to anybody with no serious consequences.
But no one cares because they want AI to do their homework for them so they don’t have to think, write, or learn to be creative on their own. They want to sit around on their asses and do nothing.
We’re going to go back to the old model of trust, before videos and photos existed. Consistent, coherent stories from sources known to be trustworthy will be key. Physical evidence will be helpful as well.
But then people will say “Well how do we know they’re not lying?” and then it’s back to square 1.
Victims might not ever be able to get justice again if this garbage is allowed to continue. Society’s going so off-track.
How often does video evidence of rape exist, though? I don’t think this really changes anything for most victims.
See Stuebenville, Ohio where the dumb motherfuckers date raped a girl and put the video on Facebook.
People do shit like that.
People will have to learn to stop believing everything they see. This has been possible with Photoshop for even more than a decade now. All that’s changed is that it takes less skill and time now.
That’s not possible with AI-generated images impossible to distinguish from reality, or even expertly done photoshops. The practice, and generative AI as a whole, needs to be banned. They’re putting AI in photoshop too so ban that garbage too.
It has to stop. We can’t allow the tech industry to enable fascism and propaganda.
You’re proposing to build a dam with duct tape.
Nah, that Thanos I-am-inevitable shit doesn’t work on me. They can ban AI, you all just don’t want it because generative AI allows you to steal other people’s talent so you can pretend you have your own
This reads like satire.
Can’t tell whether this is bait or if you are seriously that much of a Luddite.
Oh look at that, they just released pictures of you raping a 4-year-old, off to prison with you. Never mind they’re not real. That’s the world you wanted and those are the consequences you’re going to get if you don’t stop being lazy and learn to reject terrible things on ethical grounds.
And they will respond to this fascist abuse by telling everyone to vote harder and donate money
Because that’s called Libel and is very much illegal in practically any country on earth - and depending on the country it’s either easy or trivial to put forth and win a case of libel in court, since it’s the onus of the defendant to prove what they said was entirely true, and “just trust me and this actress I hired, bro” doesn’t cut it.
So what happens when evildoers give AI-generated deepfakes to news media so they can avoid liability?
The burden of liability will then fall on the media company, which can then be sued for not carrying out due dilligance in reporting.
AI is still a brand new tech. It’s like getting mad at AM radio for being staticy and low quality. It’ll improve with time as we get better tech.
Personally I can’t wait to see what the future holds for AI porn. I’m imagining being able to get exactly what you want with a single prompt, and it looks just as real as reality. No more opening 50 tabs until you find the perfect video. Sign me the fuck up.
Cam girls are going to lose their jobs.
Good
The article mentioned that at least one OnlyFans creator reached out to make a model of their own content and also mentioned that some OnlyFans creators outsource writers to chat with fans. I don’t think this will meaningfully affect cam girls’ jobs. Once we are able to make live animated images realtime with convincing speech and phrases then probably.
I really couldn’t care less.
There will always be a market for the “real thing”
Sure, but a much smaller one.
When I first heard Stable Diffusion was going open source, I knew this would happen. The only thing I’m surprised at is that it took almost 2 years.
It went quite a bit faster than that. StableDiffusion has only been out for about 13 months and this started about three months after that with Unstable Diffusion. What this article is reporting on is already quite a few months old and quite a bit behind what you can do with a local install of StableDiffusion/Automatic1111/ControlNet/etc. (see CivitAI).
As long as there will be simps, there will be a need for this trash.
“Are we ready”, in the sense that for now it’s 95% garbage and 5% completely generic but passable looking stuff? Eh.
But, as this will increase in quality, the answer would be… who cares. It would suffer from the same major issues of large models : sourcing data, and how we decide the rights of the output. As for it being porn… maybe there’s no point in focusing on that specific issue.
I have been waiting this day for decades ever since I first heard about AI generated images a decade or so ago.
Does it say something about society that our automatons are better at creating similated genitals than they are at hands?
They suck quite a lot at genitals too. But what makes hands especially tricky is simply that they are pretty damn complex. A hand has five fingers that can all move independently, the hand can rotate in all kinds of way and the individual parts of a hand can all occlude each other. There is a lot of stuff you have to get right to produce a good looking hand and it is especially difficult when you are just a simple 2D algorithm that has little idea of 3D structure or motion.
They suck quite a lot at genitals
Are we still doing “phrasing”?
Said Ripley to the android Bishop.
It says that we are biologically predisposed to sex, which we are, like animals, which we are.
It doesn’t say anything about society, it just confirms the human condition.
But… why are hands so difficult?
I’m sure it would have the same difficulty generating five properly articulating penises attached to a limb.
I’ll admit I have some difficulty with that concept myself.
Ever watch the “Everything Everywhere All at Once” hotdog scenes?
Fully Articulated Hand Penises!
On a visual level, we are more interested in genitals than hands? Also, faces.
AI porn for the longest time has just looked so off to me, idk what it is
The images on the site aren’t very good (typical low-detail airbrushed-look) nor are they generated very fast. See the examples here (mostly SFW) on what you can actually do, it takes about 15sec per image on a mid range gaming PC.
That said, one big limit of current AI models remains: It’s always images of a single subject, it can’t do multiple subjects or complex interaction. Also facial expressions still always look quite bland. It can be worked around with inpainting and stuff, but plain text prompts have a hard time generating interesting images.
You can do multiple subjects but you have to be more creative than just throwing a prompt into a generator. You have to be willing to do it in multiple steps with in painting.
This looks good, untill you try and figure out the fingers https://civitai.com/images/1967206?modelVersionId=138176&prioritizedUserIds=6357&period=AllTime&sort=Most Reactions&limit=20
and the toes here… https://civitai.com/images/1967203?modelVersionId=138176&prioritizedUserIds=6357&period=AllTime&sort=Most+Reactions&limit=20
The second one is pretty good until you notice the non-euclidian nightmare doors.
Some things I was able to put my finger on after looking at a bunch of the images in the feed:
- It doesn’t do skin well, treating it more like a smooth plastic than a surface with pores, wrinkles, and fine hairs.
- It doesn’t understand lighting, so shadows don’t agree with highlights or even each other.
- It doesn’t understand anatomy. A lot of the images were fine in this regard but others had misplaced muscles, bones, and impossible limb positioning/truncation.
- It has no idea how to draw vaginas. Nipples are also not well understood, though it does better on average with those. They still look more like a plastic than skin, but most of them were passable at least, while I didn’t see a single vagina that looked even close to right.
To be fair, so many humans drawing porn don’t understand anatomy or what vaginas look like. It’s hard to train when your input data is already bad.
Yeah, a lot of the vaginas on that site look like hentai vaginas. I can understand it more with AIs since vaginas have a ton of variance to them, so trying to make an “average” vagina will end up not looking like any actual one.
But the artists that draw them like that just disappoint me (though with the caveat that I have no reason to believe I’d do any better if I were to draw that). There’s a ton of inspiration out there and many do an amazing job with the rest of the body, why do they make one of the important parts (for porn) look like an afterthought?
Though the anime style ones aren’t as bad as some others where the AI seems like it’s trying to average boy and girl parts lol.
To be fair, the focus of this era’s porn has hardly ever been the vagina, under any amount of scrutiny. A few aspects of sex in porn prioritized higher are, in no particular order: bounce, sounds, phrasing, setting, texture, animism/passion, power roles, etc. Hell, I’d rather that more effort has been made to visually hide prophylactic use than to focus on the vagina itself.
I’m not in any way saying I agree with this, simply pointing out the facts as they are these days.
Tbh, if people don’t know the difference from a vagina and a vulva, I don’t expect AI to do a great job generating any good porn.
Using a term casually rather than medically won’t affect the quality of AI porn. Though maybe ensuring it knows the difference between a labia, clit, urethra, vagina, and asshole will produce better results.
There’s also the fact that not all porn is exploitative
Make up your mind. Last week every porn was exploitative because reasons, and not it’s not because people could lose their job.
Little known fact - there’s more the one person out there, and, those extra people have lots of differing opinions!
Impossible!
But it’s funny how people never care about nuance when they’re trying to make a point…only when someone else is trying to make a point.
Then why do they say it’s a fact?
“You can say anything on the internet.” -Genghis Khan
“You can’t just go on the internet and lie.” -Kublai Kahn
Because it is a fact, and anyone who says “all porn is exploitive” is projecting their morals and idealism across a whole industry with zero regard for nuance.
Could be interesting. I mean for one thing no real person being expolited and those with strange fetishist can be satisfied. But could be very disturbing as well. Wonder how long until AI video porn?
It’s already happened. Someone made an AI generated porn of some influencer and it was a big deal for a few minutes.
Are you talking about deep fakes? None of that is original. They just use their a face and AI matches it on to a pornstars body in an existing video.
I feel like we will start to see that more often. S complaint I see a lot here is that some people want extremely niche content that is very specific. If you have some people who get into those very specific poses and do those very specific things then run it through SD’s image to image feature you can make the person look sexy but have the same pose. The same way you have folks do mo cap for roles we might start seeing people specifically hired to do this sort of stand in.
I think it is just a matter of time for the disturbing stuff to circulate. If people can create their darkest desires they will.
Then cue debates and political campaigns about AI in general and if we should allow anyone or anything to create depraved images, pronographic or not.
That’s so good, sissy. You got even better after I amputated your legs.
“We don’t intend to police the use of developing technologies at this time.”
That’s so good, sissy, blind that billionaire with your acidic piss.
“We cannot allow our children to be exposed to such grotesque videos.”
Yeah, although I think part of the missing nuance is that people already did that, the difference being that now anyone can, in theory, create what’s inside their head, regardless of their actual artistic talent. Now that creation is accessible though, everyone’s having another moral panic over what should be acceptable for people to create.
If anything, moving the more disturbing stuff from the real world to the digital seems like an absolute win. But I suppose there will always be the argument, much like video games making people violent, that digital content will become real.
People have been able to draw for eons. Imagine trying to ban the public from drawing because the odd few people are a little mixed up.
AI is just a tool, like the pencil, charcoal or paints.
I know you aren’t suggesting we ban it from the public, just my side of the hypothetical debate that your right in saying will arrive
At what point was porn NOT graphic, but now this thing IS GRAPHIC. Are we talking all caps, or just a small difference between the live stuff and the AI shit? Inquiring minds want to know.
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