• simple@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Literally the only thing I know about this movie is that the main character is gay, Disney really tried to make that a selling point.

    • Black616Angel@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      Which is a shame, since this movie is really good and the message is great.

      It’s a solarpunk-y movie about the dangers of fossil fuel and living with your environment.

    • StarManta@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      He’s not even the main character, he’s a sidekick and not even the most prominent of the sidekicks really. (Despite the fact that he appears first in many character lists for the movie, the protagonist is Searcher)

      • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Naturally, because if it was like Nimona, then the character can’t be edited out for regressive countries

      • Sanctus@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Idk you’re really underselling Ethan’s role in the story. If anything him being gay is such a side plot it doesn’t even matter. But I wouldn’t say he is a “sidekick” lol

  • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    All I remember from this movie is the fanboys bitching about Disney only doing remakes and not releasing anything original, then they finally release something original and it gets review bombed for having a gay character

    • brygphilomena@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I didn’t care the character was gay. It just felt like it was heavy handed to point out he was gay. His relationship, and by extension his sexuality, had no impact on the story. Why even bring it up?

      His sexuality and his relationship felt like it was shoe horned into the script so Disney could say they had a gay character.

      Also. The movie was forgettable and kind of crap.

    • Stamets@startrek.websiteOP
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      1 year ago
      1. Finding Dory: Has a lesbian couple on screen for 3 seconds. Was an ENORMOUS deal at the time. Disney marketed it.
      2. Beauty and the Beast (2017 Live Action): Disney specifically marketed how Josh Gads character was their first gay character. They also marketed an “exclusive gay moment”. That moment was him dancing with another man in a group scene for like 2 seconds.
      3. Thor Ragnarok: Wasn’t announced until Love and Thunder but Valkyrie is bisexual.
      4. Avengers Endgame: Also touted as a “big moment” and the first gay character in the MCU. During the opening grief counseling session that Cap America runs, one dude is talking about how he went on a date with another man. Here’s there for a maximum of 20 seconds.
      5. Toy Story 4: You can see a lesbian couple for like 1-3 seconds.
      6. Rise of Skywalker: Also touted as a huge moment for Star Wars, Disney started talking about how it was the first lesbian couple. At the end of the movie there’s a 1 second shot of two women kissing. Disney marketed it as first on screen same sex kiss.
      7. **Onward:**The cyclops cop is a lesbian. There’s a single line where she says her girlfriend’s daughter did something.
      8. Jungle Cruise: Disney said that Jack MacGregor was their first “major gay character”. There is a single line in the film hinting towards his sexuality. Dwayne Johnsons character asks why he never got married and Jack says “my interests lie elsewhere”. That’s it. Apparently that counts for being gay.
      9. Eternals: Disney touted that one as being the ‘First Gay Superhero’. He’s not a major character or anything but you do see a scene with him and his husband/son.
      10. Cruella: Also marketed by Disney as being their ‘first major gay character’ despite them claiming that twice for Beauty and the Beast and for Jungle Cruise. In this movie, the gay character is the hyper flamboyant, fashion loving villain.
      11. High School Musical The Series: A Disney+ show. They marketed that one for the ‘First Gay Disney Love Song’.
      12. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness: America Chavez is a lesbian and the movie was marketed for having the ‘First Gay Superhero’, apparently ignoring Eternals from previously.
      13. Lightyear: ‘First Pixar Same-sex Kiss in a Pixar movie’ was claimed for this one. However it was only put back into the movie after news broke that Disney was donating to anti-gay politicians and that they constantly cut LGBTQ content behind the scenes they stuck this scene in. Then it came out that this scene too was originally cut. Shocker.
      14. Ms. Marvel: Another Disney+ show. They have a same-sex teenage lesbian couple.
      15. Strange World: The thing in the meme. First Gay Teenage character.
      • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        I saw some of these movies but the only one that actually contains a somewhat important gay character thats actually gay is eternals.

      • chrischryse@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Wow thanks didn’t think there was that many “first gay characters” 😂

        I forgot about 1 though I remember hearing about that.

        Seems like Disney can’t make up their minds and are trying to make the “perfect” gay character.

        They should just do this:

        “This is the first gay character”

        “This is the first gay character V2”

        “This is the first gay character V3”

        Etc

      • drcobaltjedi@programming.dev
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        1 year ago

        sigh

        Mission hill, a show you’ve likely never heard of, back in 1999 had two characters named Gus and Wally. They were the upstairs neighboors of the main cast though Gus and Wally did have their own episode (the show only ran for 1 season and had 13 episodes) as well as having some side plots in other episodes. Now the very first scene they’re in they are making out.

        Let me repeat that, back in fucking 1999 there was an openly gay couple in an animated show who were functionally main characters. They weren’t the perfect couple, they acted like your old married coupke, but the show never once made them being gay a joke, a bad thing, or anything of the sort. They were treated respectfully as flawed humans who loved each other for the show’s entire run.

        • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          The episode where Gus comes back from work with a knife stuck in his head and won’t go to the doctor and tries to just act like everything is normal still makes me die laughing, because my (also gay) husband is the same way.

      • audiomodder@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 year ago

        ABC is owned by Disney. ABC owns Scrubs. Therefore the first gay love song from Disney is “Guy Love” sung by JD and Turk and I will die on this hill.

      • seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        At the end of the movie there’s a 1 second shot of two women kissing.

        LOL. First I heard of this. I must’ve blinked and missed it.

        • Stamets@startrek.websiteOP
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          1 year ago

          It is literally 1 or 2 seconds. It’s an extremely quick flash that’s in the background. Not even given focus from what I remember, although I could be wrong on that. It was just so forgettable.

      • quixotic120@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        The characters being ancillary and easily edited out/cut is by design so they can still use the movies in foreign markets that are hostile to lgbt rights

        If the gay character is only identified as gay in one scene where they say “I’m gay” or kiss for 10 seconds you can just cut that part out and still screen it in Saudi Arabia. Disney doesn’t actually give a shit about lgbt issues, they give a shit about what will sell

        Thus a prominent main character who is gay or a movie about a character coming to terms with queer identity is far less likely because that basically means they instantly lose out on much of the lucrative international market

      • Holzkohlen@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Holy fuck that is pathetic. Not quite as pathetic as the people crying about “forced diversity” tho.

    • bob_lemon@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      Looking back at the list of Disney movies… there actually were none. Unless you count Cuzco.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        1 year ago

        Well definitely limiting if you go specifically gay teen.

        But they made a somewhat big deal about having a Gay Ellen DeGeneres, in finding Dory but didn’t specifically push that the character was gonna show gay representation.

        But man they really pushed the narrative that they would have an openly gay character in the live action Beauty & the Best movie which ended up being a 15 seconds site gag about cross dressing and dancing… so that was dumb.

        Then they bragged about having gay representation in an Avengers movie which ended up being an unnamed character saying he dated a guy once in a blink and you miss it sad scene at the top of the movie… and Marvel is Disney.

        Then I remember them bragging about gay representation in Onward but I actually don’t remember there being any like at all. Seriously, they talked about how they would include representing everyone and then the movie was a mess of just fairytale knockoff representation everywhere and I can point out practically no specifics.

        Let’s see then they made a bunch of live action stuff that actually had real gay representation but eternals sucked and cruella it’s definitely just a side character but hey whatever.

        Then they bragged about light-year I think which I didn’t watch so who knows how good that was.

        And that brings us to “the first openly gay character” which was the only advertising point for this movie I saw after a fantastic trailer giving such a great 1930s vibe and nothing else.

        So yeah I guess that’s practically none of you consider how pathetic the early attempts were nothing.

    • No_Money_Just_Change@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      In onwards there is a police woman/ogre who talks about her girlfriend. I have heard there is queer representation in the movie luca but I did not watch it

  • Zink@pawb.social
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    1 year ago

    Disney claiming to be inclusive and still managing an incredible amount of gender stereotyping

    • Midnight Wolf@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Now now we can’t make the boomers feel left out, there has to be something for ol’ pops to laugh about and explain at the retirement home lunch.

    • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.org
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      1 year ago

      They want both the queer dollars and the conservative family values dollars. They produce what they believe will be the most marketable to the most people.

      • PenguinJuice@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        They should just abstain from controversial shit and just make good movies.

        I don’t remember any of their prior movies needing to push agendas for anything in particular.

        • spacecadet@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          That’s a good idea, but what if some random person complains on twitter? Time to change it entire corporate strategy.

          • PenguinJuice@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Theres been inclusion and representation in movies and TV since the 90s. I’m confused. What are you referring to specifically?

        • SariEverna@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          I don’t think you understand what makes for good entertainment. Hint: you tend to need a conflict in a story. I wonder if “controversial shit” might be a place to find interesting conflict for your stories?

          Also inclusion is not the same thing as pushing an agenda. Gay people are just people. They’re allowed to exist in a story without it necessarily having to mean something.

        • Glide@lemmy.ca
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          I don’t remember any of their prior movies needing to push agendas for anything in particular.

          Then you aren’t paying attention.

          Gender-normative, male dominant relationships were the agenda. Since then, we’ve had an era of strong and independant - or at least stronger and more independant - female characters. Now we’re entering an era of deconstructing heteronormativity.

          Things have been one way for so long that you perceive it as normal, and anything else as a divergenance meant to push an agenda. Every piece of media you’ve ever consumed has had an agenda and actively, consciously played to the stereotypes that would bring in the greatest viewership and reinforce the most commonly held stereotypes and opinions. This is no different; you just got used to one agenda in particular.

          • PenguinJuice@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            So what you’re saying is good content is good because it appeals to the audience and we are now purposefully not appealing to the vast, overwhelming majority of human beings which is why Disney and other companies that chase that temporary trend are failing in droves.

            Got it.

            So only one specific agenda is correct. All the rest must be silenced.

            • niucllos@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              I mean they very obviously aren’t failing in droves, Disney for instance has been increasing their profit every year except 2020 for the last while.

              • PenguinJuice@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                https://www.theringer.com/2023/10/3/23900759/disney-downfall-streaming-rise-and-fall-of-an-entertainment-giant

                People aren’t watching what they put out. Their sustainment is heavily reliant on their parks. They destroyed Marvel and Star Wars chasing something other than what the respective core demographic wanted. This is clearly majorly impacting them or else:

                https://insidethemagic.net/2023/08/disney-ends-woke-agenda-casting-ad1/

                https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/desperate-disney-ceo-says-company-will-quiet-the-noise-of-woke-culture-push-amid-nearly-200-billion-loss-but-will-it/ar-AA1h4Gjb

                It’s not looking good for the “narrative”, I’ll tell you that.

                • Glide@lemmy.ca
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                  Okay, but you’re grossly missing the point. There was and will always be an agenda. Being upset that it isn’t your agenda and presenting this opinion under the guise of wanting it depoliticized is at best ignorant and misinformed, at worst dishonest, and regardless attempts to reinforce and legitimize hate for those who do not conform to historical norms.

                  I’d propose that your argument about the “woke agenda” failing Disney’s pocket book is in itself a cherry picked argument which ignores the massive technological and cultural shifts in the way we consume and monitize media. But it doesn’t matter, because that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. Disney has always sold a lifestyle and pandered to an agenda. There is a reason Disneyland was such a prominent point of Baudrillard’s work; Disney’s ability to conjure and sell an imaginative reality has been historically unparalleled. Now that it’s selling a fantasy that makes the privledged uncomfortable, ignorant, invalid commentary, such as your original comment, shows up perpetuating false premisis’ about media suddenly pushing an agenda, as though this is new. It is not.

                  You can choose to try and understand that, you can dig in and veil your choice of ignorance and hate, or you can simply accept that you won’t understand everything and bow out. Just don’t be surprised when you face the consequences of your choices.

  • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    There are LGBTQ movies from China so this makes no sense. One of my favorites is Lan Yu (藍宇) from 2001. Most of the characters are gay men and the plot is even critical of how the army handled the 1989 Tiananmen Square incident.

    Did y’all learn about what China is like from Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoons or what

      • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I love how entitled you feel with the white man’s burden, representing all of rest of the world, even though you paleskins are only 12% of the world’s population and have suppressed and looted the rest of the world for centuries. Consider that when white privilege dies, you people will start to become extinct, as is already happening in USA…

        • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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          What exactly did any of his reply have to do with white people? Or are you defending the persecution of gay people and blaming white people for homosexuality?

          • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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            Parent comment literally explains that LGBT+ is not persecuted in China. Above reply starts with “dear tankie fuck yourself with broken glass”, even going on to talk on behalf of “rest of the world”, that aligns with China instead of Anglosphere.

            He is the whitey perpetrating Sinophobia, which I point out as being typical white person nonsense. And all of you repliers are the defenders of anti-China bigotry.

            • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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              Parent comment literally explains that LGBT+ is not persecuted in China.

              Dishonestly, and they were called on it. Yes. With facts directly related to the movie in question.

              Above reply starts with “dear tankie fuck yourself with broken glass”,

              While I’ve had some bad run-ins with tankies, that’s more extreme than I would normally have said myself… But

              even going on to talk on behalf of “rest of the world”, that aligns with China instead of Anglosphere.

              So you are defining “white” as anyone of every ethnicity that isn’t Chinese AND living in China? Seems an odd way to put that word.

              He is the whitey perpetrating Sinophobia

              The first racist comment in this thread… and it came from you. Do you just hate everyone who isn’t Chinese?

              which I point out as being typical white person nonsense

              Again. I know Chinese expats who feel this way about China, and black- and brown-skinned people who agree. Are they all “white” by your definition?

              And all of you repliers are the defenders of anti-China bigotry.

              Ahh yes. Respond by classifying everyone as “you people”. Would you put “you people” up against the wall? How about our children? Would you put a toddler up against the wall? Tell me, do you think everyone who isn’t Chinese or pro-China is less than human and have an opinion that doesn’t matter? That’s about 80% of the world.

        • Shizrak@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Oh, our ancestors were fucking awful humans, and our current ruling class is even worse, but don’t lump us common folk in with them, ya fuckin’ racist.

            • Shizrak@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              ::sigh:: Again, you’re making it about race, when we hate the rich assholes who did and do that shit just as much as you do. So yeah, that is racism. Ya damn fool.

        • Ganbat@lemmyonline.com
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          1 year ago

          Yeah, okay buddy. Not like there aren’t already three other comments here calling that initial comment as the bullshit that it is.

          Anyone ever told you that you have the reading comprehension of a carrot? Of course, that assumes you actually care about what you’re reading, rather than just blindly supporting totalitarianism and espousing racially-motivated attacks.

          Have they maybe said that you’re just genuinely fucking insane? I know that everyone is already telling you how racist you are, so I don’t have to ask that one.

          Oh, and btw, if you’re using easily disproven half-truths to (durr this movie even talks about Tiananmen Square!!) to try and lessen the reality of such heinous events, you can fuck yourself with broken glass, regardless of your skin color, you racist prick.

          Edit: Oh, you’re that Tankie piece of shit mod from the tech board that’s been recorded deleting everything you can that so much as implies China has ever done anything wrong! People like you don’t deserve even the smallest shadow of power, you fucking scumbag, and I hope your racist rant comes back to bite you.

          • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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            Edit: Oh, you’re that Tankie piece of shit mod from the tech board that’s been recorded deleting everything you can that so much as implies China has ever done anything wrong!

            Can you provide proof I have deleted comments? I will report you to admins if you fail to prove these allegations. Nobody falsely accuses me on my moderation of boards and rooms.

    • Shoop@lemmy.ml
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      The wiki explains that most of the crew from this movie is from mainland China, however it was made by a Hong Kong director and was filmed without permission from the government.

      It explicitly states

      at the time, no mainland Chinese publisher would have published it, nor would the author be safe from government reprisals. Hence, its anonymous publication on the Internet.

      The film did had a brief showing run in December 2001, at Peking University, where interest by Chinese citizens was quite high, selling out the showings.

        • Shoop@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          From the Beijing film festival wiki

          The Festival originated from Peking University, and is considered to be “the only community-based non-governmental film festival in China with a special focus on gender and sexuality”

          • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            Didnt say it was a government event. Said the governemnt would implicitly have had to allowed it to happen, or it wouldn’t have. Or at least, thats what people who think the Chinese government is an all powerful oppressive force would say. Which is my point.

            ETA: Like the fact that a festival like that exists AT ALL, in the nation’s capital, proves that the government isnt an evil opressive anti-queer regime that people paint it as.

            • Shoop@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              The movie was filmed without permission, what makes you think it couldn’t have been shown without permission?

              Good Chinese folk can find ways around unjust restrictions just like any other country in the world. The first "festival"was held in a library in the University, probably not the type of festival you are imagining.

              • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                They didn’t get explicit permission, but they also didnt get shut down.

                Also, the “filmed without permission” is weird phrasing anyway. Does every indy movie in other countries get explicit permission from the government to be filmed? A Wiki article for, say, an Australian indy movie about queer people that covers Australian oppression of the indigenous wouldn’t go out of its way to mention “the government didn’t give permission for it to be filmed” because why would it? The government doesn’t need to approve such project. Including the “government didnt give permission” feels like editorializing to make things sound more sinister then they are.

    • Rinox@feddit.it
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      1 year ago

      There’s literally a law banning same sex relationships from being shown on tv and in cinemas, what the fuck are you talking about??

      Also Tienanmen square wasn’t “an incident”. It was a massacre.

      • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        I mean yeah I wish representation were better. Too many regional representatives are boomers stuck in the past. I was in Shenzhen in 2019 though and met a bunch of cool queer folks though.

      • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Americans call the Boston massacre and only 6 people died, just saying that on the level of supposedly horrific state violence that should never be forgotten, so you have any idea how many massacres of the same and larger scale the United States has perpetrated just in the last 30 years?

        • Rinox@feddit.it
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          According to the Chinese Communist Party around 200-300 civilians died, and several thousands were injured. According to most other agencies, the numbers are around 10 times higher, with 1000 to 3000 dead. Either way, it’s a very high number of dead.

          Or is this not a massacre? By the way, two wrongs don’t make a right

          • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            All the organizers, though, are living cushy rich lives in Taiwan and the USA now

            Wonder whose head those deaths are on? It’s not like you can legally go around impaling soldiers to buses and stealing apcs and tanks in any country

          • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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            You don’t give a fuck about the wrongdoings of any country but the ones you were told are “enemies”

            Cops in the US murder thousands of people every year, bet you don’t even spare a thought for it, is my point

            State violence only bad when it’s not my state

            • Rinox@feddit.it
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              1 year ago

              I do care about wrongdoings of any country. The issues with police violence, racial discrimination and gun violence in the US are not a secret. You are not the first one talking about that. Everyone in the west talks about that, it’s now the first thing most people think of when talking about the US in the west.

              That being said, I don’t understand why, when anyone even tries to say “China bad” the answer is always “but America is also bad”. Why does that make it right?

              • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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                because we’re in a contrived thread that twists over backwards to shit on china, not a thread about the legitimate issues with china. Its frustrating to see, even when I agree that china is pretty bad in a lot of ways, seeing that drumbeat of “enemy state bad” as an army of mindless brainwashed western redditors marches by throwing out half truths and outright lies (its almost never real criticisms, like with north korea its just miles long lists of shit westerners were taught to think like its illegal to not have the kim haircut) it just makes my head pop

      • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        What? I was just watching a show the other day with a trans hostess on Chinese national TV. Her name is Jin Xing and she’s very well known and her show draws 100 million viewers regularly

    • superkret@lemmy.ml
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      Since this work contained positive depictions of gay men, explicit (by Chinese standards) gay sex scenes, and resurrected the ghost of Tiananmen Square, at the time, no mainland Chinese publisher would have published it, nor would the author be safe from government reprisals. Hence, its anonymous publication on the Internet.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lan_Yu_(film)

      Ah, such a free and progressive society!

        • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          You decided to go out on a limb to defend the Chinese government, make a false implication about it, and when you’re called on it, your answer is “Nothing would ever satisfy you people”.

          What did you expect when you lied?

          Do you concede the below statement that you replied to? I’ll re-paste it to confirm:

          Since this work contained positive depictions of gay men, explicit (by Chinese standards) gay sex scenes, and resurrected the ghost of Tiananmen Square, at the time, no mainland Chinese publisher would have published it, nor would the author be safe from government reprisals. Hence, its anonymous publication on the Internet.

          Do you accept that is true?

        • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
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          What a comprehensive rebuttal to his counterpoint lol

          You guys really have no idea what to say once you run out of prescripted talking points, huh?

        • Maoo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          Try fixing that section, which is entirely speculation, and see how quickly it gets reverted and by whom. You’ll quickly run into either a power user with reactionary politics that should’ve been banned ages ago per Wikipedia’s own policies or a series of FirstWordLastWord962578 accounts making reversions with no explanation.

          The latter is what lazy government behavior looks like. The former is the larger social structures built around the acceptability and empowerments of reactionary thought and narratives that is inherently anticommunist.

          But really, go do it. Remove the section as speculation and show/tell us what happens.

      • Maoo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        Wikipedia article speculation cited as fact on lemmy dot net.

        Western propaganda is a series of clowns honking each other’s noses all the way down.

  • agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 year ago

    Funfact to tell the haters(since I assume few if any are here): The gays are not doing this to Disney. Disney is doing this to the gays, they make 17 first openly this or that kind of queerness because they want the gay peoples money.

      • agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        Yeah, and maybe its just me, but I had never though before this meme to phrase my thoughts about it the way I did, and I like the way it explains where the ‘action’ is coming from very plainly, since I hear opponents of representation claim that it works in reverse and somehow the gays are forcing media conglomerates to bend to their will, instead of the media conglomerates putting out whatever extracts the most cash. Like I don’t expect the right leaners I know to understand and agree with this comment I’m typing, but I really feel like I could get somewhere if I phrased it like in the one you replied to. Of course not everyone can be moved in the first place, but its the idea I get from my experiences with them.

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          They will then counter this with “Well if they just shut up and minded their own business instead of telling everybody all about how much cock they suck, it wouldn’t matter”, completely missing the point that these folks have been minding their own business for centuries and regularly getting murdered for it, and also completely missing the extremely obvious parallels to Jim Crow and the civil rights movement (or maybe not, maybe that’s why they hate it so much). It is their opinion that they shouldn’t have to know you’re gay, and that you should have to live in fear of revealing that fact for your entire lifetime. And that’s just the crowd that doesn’t believe that homosexuality is a direct affront to God and should be stamped out as a moral imperative.

          I’ve had this conversation before a few times, it always comes back around to the same points. Conservatives become extremely unconformable with the knowledge that The Gays® exist and typically wield misunderstood Bible quotation in defense of that. Those who don’t, will resort to the argument that they shouldn’t have to have it “thrust into their faces”, as though the knowledge that gay folks exist is some great personal burden to them. They will happily tell people to “mind their own business” and “keep it to yourself” so long as their lungs have air with which to speak, but when told themselves to mind their own damn business, suddenly this is unacceptable.

  • Peddlephile@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    The Mitchells vs the machines did it best. It was a great and entertaining story and I loved all the characters. Perhaps Disney should just make a story that’s worth telling?

    • Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      No need for that. China is bad. Everyone with a brain knows their genocides and suppression of their people is bad.

      • yuri@lemm.ee
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        Where’s the “valid criticism of rainbow capitalism”? I think you’re projecting.

        • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          Several movies being “the first one with an openly gay character” when there’s maybe a minor reference to it while donating to republicans until an especially stupid one decided to wage a personal campaign against them.

          What do you think projecting means? Are you saying I’m doing rainbow capitalism lmao

          • yuri@lemm.ee
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            “This post is about a movie from a year ago. Was the whole point to do some kind of weird roundabout “China bad” post?”

            That’s the orignal comment we’re talking about. Where are you getting any of that shit out of this comment?

      • Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        China censors those movies though. Its the truth. It is deeply homophobic. xenophobic and commits human rights abuses. Hexbears just dont want to see it.

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          Yes, and he originally was gonna make it obvious but he had to fight tooth and nail with Disney to even get the scene at the end where they look longingly into each other’s face while talking about love (iirc) and then shoot a cannon together (which is meant to represent that they are indeed a “canon” couple).

    • pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io
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      I need to rewatch it soon. One of the best animated series of the modern times, right next to Adventure Time, Gravity Falls, Dead End, Close Enough, Amphibia, BoJack, Infinity Train, Kipo, Vox Machina, Smiling Friends and YOLO.

      What a time to be alive… When I was a kiddo, the best stuff came from Japan, and now the Americans are really nailing it.

    • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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      Man, I was dubious of that show originally. It had this weird hype about it that usually ends up with the hyped thing not being enjoyable for me.

      But my kid liked it. And I was enforcing exercise as a mandatory part of the day. With the adhd involved, it was either allow tv during exercise and deal with delays when they got sucked in, or deal with delays when we’d “disagree” on how much of a given exercise had actually been done.

      So, we worked out that we’d share shows during exercise. One of the very first was owl house. Again, I was dubious as hell. But I started looking forward to it. By the time the final episode was available, I was hooked too. I cried like a damn baby right beside my kid during that.

      That show just works. The writing manages to thread a path that’s serious enough to give weight to it rather than being cartoony, without abandoning a bit of joy and humor to do so.

      It’s pretty much the best animated show I’ve seen since samurai jack. Totally different, but I find that it is as good.

  • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    "We, the enlightened and human rights respecting West, did an about face on LGBT people having rights about 10 years ago after many centuries of violent persecution and suppression.

    Now you, the country who’s main ethnic group derives it’s demonym from a dynast of bisexual emperors, and which has never had large scale and systematic persecution or suppression of gay people, must depict gay people in media exactly as we do.

    If you do not, we will call you barbarians."

    • body_by_make@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      Go back to hexbear, tanky. Nobody likes you.

      Literally the only thing tankies can say about the atrocities their beloved authoritarian dictators commit is “but amerikah”. Fuck off with your bullshit.

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Can gay people exist in America without their sexual identities being the subject of endless culture war bullshit?

        I’m all for China legalizing gay marriage and full protections for LGBT people. That process requires Chinese society to have its own conversation, which is what’s happening right now. Copy pasting American culture war bullshit verbatim isn’t going to do gay people any good, and a gay character in a kids movie certainly isn’t going to do jack shit.

        • windowlicker [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          the newer generations in china have been leading the way in terms of a public opinion shift towards acceptance of LGBTQ people. on social media and in city centers you can find a lot of LGBTQ youth freely expressing themselves from what i’ve seen.

          • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            There are even laws against hate speech towards LGBT people in the Chinese national media. That will literally never happen in America

        • dokapuff@lemm.ee
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          Then why change the movies? Why not just not release them if Chinese society isn’t ready to have that conversation yet?

          • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            Because giving the impressing that LGBT issues are an imposition on Chinese society by the West in general and America specifically is going to distort the issue at best and at worst give the conservatives ammo to say that LGBT is an American plot to blah blah blah. Especially in the context of a Disney movie, aimed at kids, which adds in a “they’re coming for our children” factor.

            It would do incalculable damage to the advancement of LGBT rights in China for such rights to be tied to America or the West, so on balance the censors probably did the LGBT community a solid here.

            Plus, that’s assuming that this is the censors in China and not Disney self censoring because Disney thinks the Chinese censors care.

            • dokapuff@lemm.ee
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              I don’t see how a story about a gay character could possibly do such damage to an entire movement regardless of its country of origin.

              I’m really not trying to be obtuse I actually don’t understand.

              • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                Well for one, China and much of the global south have been struggling against the political, economic, and cultural hegemony of the West for centuries now and there’s a pretty visceral aversion to doing whatever the west is perceived to be telling us to do. Especially so on a cultural and societal level where Westerners have zero idea of who we are and how we do things but just constantly tell us how we should think and behave.

                In this specific context, there well recognized scholars who posit that homophobia was spread in China by Westerners during the late Qing and Republican era. In addition to being rightfully wary of Western social and cultural meddling, there is also a strong rejection of the hypocrisy of the West causing this problem in the first place and now judging us for not immediately following their model in solving it.

                For another, Western media just recently demonstrated how willing it is to politicize Disney movies by accusing China and Occupied Korea of being racist because of poor ticket sales of The Little Mermaid. If Westoid media makes a big song and dance about how a billion and a half Chinese people are homophobes because we didn’t turn up to see a Disney movie, that’s going to taint the whole movement with an association to hysterical Western political media.

          • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            They’re having the conversation right now. Like there was a recent incident where LGBTQ stuff was banned off Weibo (Chinese social media) and there was a public outcry that reversed the decision. It’s up to China to decide how they’ll progress and I’m optimistic about it.

            China’s censorship laws are mostly designed for protectionist reasons, like they don’t want their domestic film industry overrun by Disney or Sony. They’d rather have an internal market that’s not bound to international businesses. That said, their censorship board is, for better or worse, operated by a bunch of stick in the mud boomers. Hopefully it’ll get better with increasing awareness among younger people and changing trends. That said, the idea that China needs its government overthrown because it censors movies or that the state isn’t as progressive as it could be? That’s absurd and not helping anything.

            I should also mention that homosexuality was mostly seen as normal or ignored throughout Chinese history up until the 19th century. It was a theme at the time that Britain or some other western power would start involving themselves within an Asian country and rewrite local laws, including restrictions on homosexuality.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Most of the useful conversation to be had is not from the west demanding they just adopt western culture. I don’t support censoring movies on homophobic grounds, but I think gay media produced and shown domestically (which absolutely does exist) is much more productive and important.

            • yuri@lemm.ee
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              I’m gay and housing is just as hard to find for me as it is for my straight friends. Housing in the United States is prohibitively expensive, even/especially for renters depending on the area. This comparison was flawed to begin with, but that’s not surprising considering it’s the argumentative equivalent of a “no u”. Die on a better hill.

        • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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          Wouldn’t that also apply to a gay kid in china? I somehow doubt they just give away free housing to people.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            China is not perfect on the matter of right-to-housing, but it is very good. Everyone has a right to have some kind of housing unit, though they don’t necessarily (and in fact, I think usually don’t) “own” it and family homes are counted if the kid isn’t formally disowned. A very large number of the homeless population in China are “itinerant homeless,” those who do have a family home but have moved elsewhere and aren’t paying rent for an apartment (usually due to poverty, and therefore may live on the street) in order to try to get a job in the city with which to support themselves and possibly the rest of their family, who are usually back home in some rural area. This is very different from what homelessness typically looks like in the US, though it happens here too.

            If a child is not formally disowned but is nonetheless forced out by their family, then it’s effectively a matter of child abuse to be handled by the appropriate government organization once it is discovered/reported, and either the family recants or they formally disown the child. If they are formally disowned, they are entitled to shelter.

            Though not the same system by any means, I think the DPRK’s law on this subject is similar, though it’s much easier for poor families (and kids therein) to fall through the cracks, meaning that you are more likely* to find a homeless queer kid there as a consequence.

            *on a per-capita level

      • windowlicker [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        why is inclusion in an often patriarchal/misogynistic and conservative institution as marriage the end-all-be-all of queer rights? this is such an annoying talking point from liberals. i have heard american conservatives going on national stages and calling for the complete genocide of trans people, but i have not heard of anything like that from chinese politicians.

        china has a long road ahead in terms of queer rights, but compared to queer rights (and “rights” like the right to get married, right to die in an imperialist war, etc) backsliding in the west, there’s a pretty big difference.

        • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          why is inclusion in an often patriarchal/misogynistic and conservative institution as marriage the end-all-be-all of queer rights?

          Kind of reminds me of the space race and how the USSR had all these amazing achievements but America decided that the winner was the first one to land people on the moon.

        • AlpineSteakHouse [any]@hexbear.net
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          why is inclusion in an often patriarchal/misogynistic and conservative institution as marriage the end-all-be-all of queer rights?

          Legal protections mostly. If you get married, you have a right to see your spouse in the hospital. Otherwise, they’re just another person even if you’ve been living together for 50 years. You also have a right to inheritance, the right to receive pensions and 401k, etc etc. An unmarried partner is essentially left with nothing unless explicitly stated in a will and even then they don’t have all the legal protections.

          Imagine living with someone for 20 years and they get into a car wreck, you can’t see them before they die because you’re married. You get kicked out of your home because legally you’re just a roommate and have no right to stay in that house. Then, all the money your partner invested goes to their shithead parents who kicked them out as a child. None of that would happen if you were married.

          Marriage is an outdated contract but the functions it provides are still important to society.

          Edit: Obviously I support China but marriage isn’t just a “proof of love” or some other sentimental thing.

        • dokapuff@lemm.ee
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          I ain’t no fucking lib. It’s a simple standard of acceptance in society (i.e. gay people get to participate in the same governmental institutions as everyone else).

      • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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        Nope! And thats bad. But marriage equality is not the only measure of queer rights. Queer people in China are largely left alone and not hate crimed and speaking as a queer I’d rather get to be alive than get married.

        China absolutely needs to work on its legal rights for queer people. I’m not saying otherwise. But you are still looking at the issue through a very western lense, and a hypocritical one considering how recently queer rights have even been begun to be accepted in the west. And how fast we are moving backwards on them in America especially. And how bad issues like homeless queer youth still are.

        • dokapuff@lemm.ee
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          Why is it hypocritical? I’ve supported the LGBT movement for literally as long as I can remember. It’s somehow my fault that other people haven’t realized that gay people are still people?

          Have you ever criticized someone for looking at the issue through a very eastern lense or is that reserved for people you deem as western-enough?

          • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            I’m not a Christian, but one of the things I’ve always felt Jesus was really on point on was when he said “take the beam out of your own eye before taking the speck of dust from your neighbors”.

            I think this can be applied to geopolitics very well, even if you think the other country has the beam and you have the speck of dust, its still advisable to focus on your own countries problems. Its hypocritical not on a personal level, but on a national level. To use a non Christian phrase, its throwing stones in a glass house. Idk what specific country you’re from, but unless its China you can’t do much about China’s issues with queer rights, so why focus on them? Focus on wherever you’re from.

            Like literally the only thing a Westerner can “do about” Chinese queer rights issues is encourage war/regime change, which you should know does not have a good record of working out for the effected country. And thats the problem we communists have when people start talking about China’s problem. We know our countries want regime change in China, so we see this shit as supporting of that. Its basically a threat.

            Have you ever criticized someone for looking at the issue through a very eastern lense or is that reserved for people you deem as western-enough?

            No, I haven’t, because I’m a westerner lol. Like I said, I focus my criticisms at home.

            • dokapuff@lemm.ee
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              I want good for all people on this Earth. Like, I wouldn’t ignore verbal abuse just because there’s physical assault still happening, y’know? I’m not a politician or even a particularly smart guy. I know my original post came off bad, sorry.

  • RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip
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    1 year ago

    Would anyone like to run a statistical analysis of the number of gay characters that have been present in Disney movies, or really movies in general?

    They’re forcing gay characters on us! Help I’m being oppressed! Chill the Fuck out and watch literally 99 percent of all movies that have ever been made if you’re worried about being underrepresented.

    Let’s sit down and watch all of the movies that feature a white savior ‘knowing what’s best’ for poor and minority characters. Look at their unbridled altruism! They don’t have to associate with those pesky poors but they choose to do it on account of their saintliness! Get the fuck outta here.

    • Stamets@startrek.websiteOP
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      According to out.com there are 17 and most of them have the representation of either it being a backhanded reference to them being queer or being on screen for all of 3 seconds. Oh lawd jesus. So oppressive.

      Just a bunch of whiny people who are so incredibly insecure with their own sexuality that they think someone else could turn them gay. Probably because they spend more time than they want to admit fantasizing about sucking cock.

      Sorry. As a gay dude I am just so phenomenally tired of hearing the most represented group on the planet whine about being “under-represented” or having to be “forced to watch gay people, THINK OF THE KIDS” when shit like Boss Baby is created where you have a literal infant lusting over women.

      • RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip
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        Just do a deep dive on all the super Fucking uncomfortable 80s and 90s tv shows and movies where it’s totally acceptable for an adult to have a sexual encounter with a child. It’s sold as a gag or the adult ‘ struggles with their urges’ or whatever. Totally normal, haha funny.

        Imagine if there were a movie like Leon the professional that featured a gay man or a transgender person. The world would lose its mind and string up the director for child abuse.

        I’m in full support of lgbt characters that are ‘normalized’ and treated like everyone else. It’s such a non issue it’s crazy to me that it’s even a concern in anyone’s mind.

        • clanginator@lemmy.world
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          Even from a conservative perspective it’s fucking stupid. Your job as a parent is to help your kid learn how to navigate the real world, which SURPRISE has gay people in it.

          • SARGEx117@lemmy.world
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            My sister had a little meltdown on Facebook about the beauty and the beast remake when it came out, because gasp it has two guys dancing in it for all of 2 seconds, at the very end of the movie.

            She literally said “how am I supposed to explain that to my kids?” and apparently “with words, if they bother asking” wasn’t the answer she wanted.

            I have far more knowledge of her activities in highschool and college than she thought. I could easily get 7 ex-girlfriends of hers to answer on her social media page so everyone she’s pandering to can have an answer from an openly gay person how to address openly gay people. (hint: normal. You treat them normally.)

            • clanginator@lemmy.world
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              I was showing my nephews and niece pics of me with my ex once because she didn’t visit with me and my niece asked to see pics.

              The friend that introduced us is gay, and I had a pic of all of us during gamenight with him and his ex. My niece asked who his ex was, I couldn’t remember their name, so I said “that was his boyfriend” to which the kids were surprised, and asked a couple questions, which I answered in a very basic, kid-friendly manner. Just the matter-of-fact manner in which I’ve always explained stuff to them.

              Well that was enough to send my SIL flying into the living room with a bible to go over verses that talk about how it’s sinful to be gay. I sat there holding my tongue, and I could see the confusion on their faces like “he was just telling us about his friend”.

              I waited until she was done to tell them that another reason I’m not a Christian anymore is bc I don’t think who my friends are is wrong. (Which ofc brother and SIL got upset at later)

              And in the conversation I had with my brother and SIL later on, they couldn’t see how me talking about my gay friends differently to my straight friends or avoiding saying someone was gay if it came up was an issue. These people live in a twisted reality of their own creation, it’s frightening.

          • Auli@lemmy.ca
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            My problem is the stereotypes. Have a strong women she’s a lesbian, a girl who likes sports a lesbian. Gay man is over the top flamboyant. They might be representing but it still seems stereotyped.

            • clanginator@lemmy.world
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              Oh 100% that’s an issue esp with Disney movies I feel like, but in general I find that there’s a lot of just bad stereotypes that get away with masquerading as “gay humor”, or the fact that a character is queer is just shoehorned in later, but plays no bearing on the character.

              Anecdotally I’ve gotten back into Apex Legends recently, and LOVE the representation in that game. One of my mains, Fuse, is stereotypical Aussie manly man who loves explosives, and just so happens to be pansexual and very affectionate with his nb partner. They’re a genuinely enjoyable couple without any of the traditional gay/queer stereotypes found in other media, it’s so refreshing.

        • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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          Luc Besson man, Leon was way more pedo on script but he had to pull back while filming. And the fifth element too, Leeloo was essentially a baby/toddler in an adult woman’s body so everyone wanted a piece of her.

          • RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip
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            It’s Hollywood. Think about how we now know like every major rockstar from the 70s thru the 90s was openly having sex with teenagers. Now look at what we have uncovered about the rape based economy of movies and tv. These guys were raping men women and children with impunity for decades. It’s no wonder that their films would reflect that.

            Up till now and likely still today, if you wanted to be successful in hollywood you weren’t getting a seat at the table until they got exactly what they wanted. Try to resist and watch as your career went up in flames. Ashley Judd remembers.

            It’s not surprising at all that this time period was all just an extension of that. Working child rape into movies was just them expressing themselves.

            • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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              The director of the jeepers creepers series is a convicted pedophile who raped his 12 year old star during filming. Francis for Coppola continues to be his friend and funds his movies

        • BelieveRevolt [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          The world would lose its mind and string up the director for child abuse.

          The director of Leon the Professional should’ve unironically been strung up for child abuse.

      • th3raid0r@tucson.social
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        1 year ago

        I don’t get it either. My brother-in-law is like this. And he refused to take his kids to see Buzz Lightyear because of its “political” nature. I was a dumbfounded when I heard that. To think that representation is just some nebulous political aim.

        At this rate, we should just consider any media with a kiss in it “political media.”

        And I even grew up with this dude in the early 2000s. He didn’t seem like this before.

        I try to forget about the guy, but it’s kind of hard because he won’t let me see the nieces because I’m too “liberal”.

        • wheeldawg@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          When morons say something about a “political nature”, it’s just code for briefly mentioning (and then not instantly condemning) anything about a character that doesn’t fit into:

          Straight white cis Christian household with the oldest male the sole breadwinner and the oldest female barefoot and pregnant and tending to their (at least 2) kids’ needs, and keeping house while still doing her “wifely duties” for him, all while being in the kitchen.

          They hate immigrants and anyone different from them in any way. They tolerate them if they stay where they came from.

          Anything else they disagree with is a political issue, because an extreme version of their religion is their political party, do anything they disagree with means God hates it, and their party will vote against it, and the normal people will vote for it, thereby making it a political issue in an ass backwards way.