• rynzcycle@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      This is generally what I came to say, except to add that Gen Z is giving me (old millennial) some hope. We were frogs in the pot, but it’s a rolling boil and zoomers like Greta, David Hogg, and the 12 year old who interrupted COP28 seem alright.

      Ultimately, I’m determined to break the cycle of previous Gen calls current Gen lazy. These kids are alright and I wish we had left them better.

      • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I don’t think they’re lazy but I do think they’re paranoid and cynical. Perhaps understandably, but not helpfully.

      • uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        7 months ago

        Dirt poor Boomers could get lucky. Xers were taught we could escape our heritage through hard work and pluck, and some of us were credulous.

        Millennials knew it was BS.

        • Sentient Loom@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          I still work hard because it’s an antidote to despair and depression. It’s a necessity but it does not lead to material reward.

        • Sentient Loom@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          Extremely depressing, socially isolating, psychologically warping. I’m a responsible, intelligent, ambitious person, but I’m not a functioning human. I’m severely and permanently damaged by poverty, even though I grew up in Canada. I’m 40 but I just managed to start a career about two years ago because I’m borderline unemployable and emotionally unbalanced (I worked my ass off at careers for 20 years, and utterly failed, constant burnout and humiliation, social assistance, moving back into a parents’ tiny apartment). I work remotely which is the only way I can ever hope to maintain a steady job. I can’t maintain normal relationships because I was totally denied social interaction growing up, and my brain can’t cope with social things now. I stopped trying to force myself to learn because it was literally decades of torture that didn’t work. People keep telling me I’m autistic but all the doctors say “nope, you’re just fucked up” (actually they use words like “personality disorder” and PTSD and anxiety disorders and ADHD and other stuff. I have a long list of diagnoses for which no treatment was offered except pills which mostly don’t work, although I’ll admit that ADHD meds helped me get a bunch of work done and also straightened out my brain a little bit. I don’t take them anymore but the positive effects are still with me).

          Now, it looks like I’m doing a lot of complaining here. But in truth I’m just describing my “no hope” landscape. Hope sounds like poison. I have things to do, and right now I have a pretty good life.

          • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            Yeah that sounds a lot like my current life. I’m 41, broke, can’t keep a job, socializing is painful, country upbringing. Whatever happened in my childhood did something like that to me.

            But I was asking what it was like, not so much what outcomes did it have on your adult life. If it’s too painful to relive it you don’t have to, but I was curious. What was it like, when you were a kid?

            • Sentient Loom@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago

              We moved around a lot, almost always rural. I had a big family so they were always a close crew, but also always very strained and stressed. We had a Nintendo and bicycles. I usually had friends around until I was 11, but then we literally just moved out into the forest where there was nobody else. For 7 awful years I was like in a prison. I lost the ability to communicate, but not the desire. I dreaded the summers because I knew I wouldn’t see a single person outside my family. My parents were constantly stressed, always on a sour mood. The forest was hard on them too. I would mostly try to entertain my siblings amd read books. Depression became the biggest feature of my life. There was just nobody. Then I would go back to school in the fall and I didn’t know how to communicate anymore, and was constantly sad and lonely. But I denied those feelings because I didn’t want to be a bitch.

              My very young life was awesome. Until I was maybe 7 or 8 we always had tons of family and friends around, including when we lived in rural villages. We were poor but so was everybody else. But we had to keep moving to chase work, and I always lost those relationships. And then as I described above we moved out to the absolute woods and my brain started to rot. I really have no idea what “hope” could even have looked like.

              There were good times too. My siblings and I would explore the forest. We followed a river up a mountain until there was no river anymore (its weird to see it getting smaller and smaller until there’s nothing). We built sledding tracks. We found an abandoned cemetery from the 1700s just in the middle of the forest.

              Mostly I just read books. And that’s still what I do.

              • QuiteQuickQum@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Thank you for talking online. It might not appear to be much, but it is. You’re connecting and communicating your pain. Hopefully we merry chums can take on some of the burden you feel. Keep going; this is your one shot and it doesn’t have to be noteworthy to anyone but yourself.

                • Sentient Loom@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 months ago

                  Hey man. Thanks. I’m doing well, I’m just countering the idea that millennials en masse had something called “hope.”

  • Art35ian@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Marketing Exec here. I specialise in generation segmentation. I wrote this recently for my employer:

    Gen-Z

    Are recession learned, young, with low disposable income and low income. They are in education, are career starters and living at home.

    They are lonely, single, and spend 10 hours p/day online (hyper online consumption / always logged in) with the least attention to ads. They are engaged in people-discussing-products-and-services, prefer information over ads, and use ad blockers.

    Otherwise known as ‘digital natives’, Gen-Z are highly socially consciousness (body image, cyberbullying, mental health) and highly environmentally conscious. They have a strong focus on saving and responsible spending and are quite frugal. They are study and career minded and prefer money over perks and benefits in employment. They dislike having their time wasted. They have a low attention span.

    Millennials

    Have long-term debt (mortgage/car/student loan) and have young children. They are not at full purchasing power, are the most adaptable generation ever to pre-and post-technology, are delayed in marriage, delayed in independence, and came of age through globalisation and economic rollercoasters.

    They prefer texting/messaging, are high use smartphone users, and sleep with their phone. They are the most active and health conscious generation, environmentally conscious, and the highest consumers of web content. Learning is more compelling than buying to Millennials as they spend an average of 4 hours p/day online or with phone/apps. They prefer advisors, advice, and opinions over a corporate story. They prefer sharing economy (access not ownership). Prefer e-commerce as entertainment.

    Millennials are impatient, have reduced brand loyalty, and are extremely tech savvy. They are researchers of ideas, thoughtful and seeking expertise, and love to collaborate and help companies or causes achieve. Online they use acronyms, slang, and respond to authentic but complex language. They prefer honesty and being empowered. They are price aware.

      • Art35ian@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I’ve done them all. It’s my job. Here are the big ones but I could go all day on demographic, psychographic, and technographic segments.

        Gen-X

        Are nostalgic, middle-aged, family oriented, individual, busy/stressed, and time poor. They were consumers of media and marketing in the evenings and enjoy peace of mind. They apply high value to security and protection, are customer-service centred and insist on value. They are brand loyal.

        Entering peak career/positions of power, Gen-X are financially stable. They are newly empty nesters with adult children. They are homeowners with high purchase power.

        Gen-X thoroughly research products, rely on businesses as providers of information, and are the highest online information seekers with moderate use of smartphones (3 hours p/day). They prefer text and email and are high social media consumers.

        Boomers

        Are informed shoppers and prefer reliability of products. Boomers are independent, goal/solution oriented, are value and ROl orientated, careful buyers, and confident. They have high work ethic, are less tech savvy - slow adopters of change, and don’t like or understand online trends and language. They prefer helpful and valuable content, no slang, and have a high focus on luxury. They have an attitude of 'the customer is always right’, and have a high use in their children as tech advisors. They are very brand loyal.

        Boomers have a high disposable income, work hard and have an excellent work ethic. Now retired or entering retirement, they have grandchildren, are homeowners/investors with very high purchase power. Boomers are the wealthiest generation, set to bequeath $224B in the next two decades.

        With a strong focus on health, Boomers spend to be comfortable, are big spenders, and prefer traditional relationships with business and necessary contact. They are high Facebook users, prefer clear and concise language, and spend 5 hours p/day on smartphones. Boomers are print and broadcast media consumers. They are traditional.

        Silent Gen

        Silent Gen are extremely loyal and expect loyalty in return. They are disciplined, family/community centred, prefer conformity, give and expect respect, are traditional, resilient, determined, very health conscious, and time rich.

        Now Grandparents / Great Grandparents, they are retired, downsizing, and social. Silent Gen have an easy-life preference, seek value, are very frugal, and are budgeters. They are almost exclusively analogue and highly self-sacrificial.

  • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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    7 months ago

    I work in IT support, and I have for longer than I’d like to admit. I’m on the very early edge of millennial. I was born a few years after the generation “started”. My older brother was on the transition between millennial and gen X and my oldest sibling was very gen X. My parents were part of the prior two generations (boomers etc), and I tend to work along side and for all sorts of people from all of these generations.

    Earlier than gen X, eg boomers and older, are usually technology adverse, they don’t like change. I find many are kind of “set in their ways”. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but they seem to be fairly rare. They like to do things using methods that are tried and true, but often reluctantly agree to use computers instead of paper because that’s what others are doing. Even so, they’re fairly adverse to updates and changes that modify how things get done. They have money, and you can’t have any of it. Often, they have little understanding of the problems faced with current generations, likely because they did not have the same challenges, and despite their stories of “back in my day” about how hard things were for them, they actually had it rather easy in terms of cashflow and buying power. They made less, sure, but when they were able to buy a mid sized, single family, fully detached home for the same dollar value as a “cheap” car costs now, their money went much farther (around $20k).

    Gen X is kind of lost. What I mean is that they don’t really have too many traits that stand out. As far as I can see, they’re hyper independent, mostly riding the coat tails of the bombers economically, so, while they didn’t have it quite as easy as boomers did (despite what boomers might think/say), it also wasn’t significantly harder for them. They were mostly able to follow a fairly typical life path, get an education (HS/college/uni), get a career, buy a house, have a family (if desired). Politically, from what I’ve seen, gen X is the most diverse group and they’re usually following along with whatever is regionally popular. Not because it’s popular, but because they’re surrounded by it. From what I’ve seen this group is the most adaptable to their neighboring community, mostly just trying to fit in and not be bothered. Right now they’re a large part of working professionals.

    Millennials are usually post college, debt laden individuals that are just tired. They were trying to kick-start their lives in some of the craziest times imaginable. Many early millennials who were able to quickly move through the education system, and immediately get into a career and the housing market follow more along the lines of gen X. If you were held back for any reason or you were caught up in a situation that held you back, you shared fate with many of the later millennials. The majority of millennials were caught up in every economic crisis short of a complete collapse of the money system during the years that they should have been starting their careers. Homes rose in price swiftly and vehicles didn’t lag far behind. Driven by sheer determination to succeed, many accrued significant debt that they just want to balance out. This group is the most technically malleable and can adapt to most technology changes in the shortest time. Growing up on landlines and home PC’s/consoles/electronics that all significantly changed their designs, capabilities and interfaces every 4-5 years. Many seem to be problem solvers and want to be helpful/useful. Many have, and some still do, hold onto the ideal that their contribution should be impactful. Most just want to be acknowledged and told they’re doing well, while making enough to pay their bills and debts. For many the dream of owning a home is dying or dead. Renters, car owners, debt holders. They’re growing rather jaded about it as they get older.

    Gen Z have their own language. Millennials did too but mostly in cultural memes, with the zoomers, it’s less cultural reference and more of a short hand derived from cultural references. Things that on their own, don’t make any sense and are not even full sentences in any way shape or form. They follow in the aftermath of the economic crisises of millennials and have many of the same economic challenges. Many of those challenges are simply more severe. Prices are higher than ever, buying power is at an all time low. Surrounded by toxic “hustle” culture and many seem to want nothing to do with that. Many find humor in randomness and unexpected happenstance rather than traditional subversion of expectation as humor. They’re quickly becoming the most socially aware and active generation, and want change. Technologically growing up on iPhones and Androids rather than home PC’s, many are not very adaptable to changes in technology though zoomers are one of the highest use groups for the technology. They use it, they don’t really understand it very well, so when things break, even if they’re only non fictional in their current state, things are replaced rather than fixed. Eg, if their iPhone is too slow, rather than trying to find out why or trying to fix the issue, better to simply upgrade to whatever apple is currently pushing. Due to this, they needlessly spend more money than their older generation counterparts. This is by design by the actions of corporations, fostering a single use, replace, not repair mentality. They’re not lazy or lacking in motivation at all, despite appearances that may show a lack of success, instead the lack of success is driven by an inability to find adequate employment that will pay enough to allow them to prosper. The majority will be “held back” from the “typical” life path of education > career > home ownership > family, because of their inability to prosper due to high prices and low wages.

    Overall, through the generations there has been a decline in community as a function of geography, and an increase in community as a function of shared interest, mainly due to the growing and universal access to the internet. The internet has allowed both good and bad to be accessible at a moment’s notice. This has shortened the tolerance to delays and given a sense of urgency to even the most trivial and mundane of requests. With the immediate response available from growing internet connectivity, demand for more frequent, more detailed updates from everything has grown significantly, eroding confidence in others to fulfill their obligations unless they communicate that “we’re doing things” (so to speak). Even something as simple as ordering take out or having things shipped, if there is no tracking and reporting, then it might as well not be happening.

    Over all, IMO, the problems faced by the current generations tend to be more centered around artificial issues created by corporations. They want to pay less, earn more, and overall turn a larger and larger profit. This is neither surprising, nor helpful to most. It does however explain the single use, replace rather than fix, nature of things that has been growing. The rise in rental vs ownership has increased the cost of living and is on track to build a service-based lifestyle where personal ownership doesn’t happen. Everything is provided for a “low” recurring fee, which has so significantly outpaced any rise in wage that most will be unable to accrue any amount of savings.

    For me, all of this has made it very clear what future we’re in store for, and bluntly, it’s not very pleasant. Perpetual home rental, no personal ownership of vehicles (you simply tap a button on your phone and if one is available, it will arrive for you to use, little more than a taxi service), video, audio and other media will be rental only, streaming over the internet, which is a monthly service fee. This leads to near zero ability for customization of your lifestyle. You have no choice in terms of the appliances and devices you use, the car you drive, your home’s design… The list goes on. So if you want or need something different, you’re completely out of luck. Conform or die.

    • setVeryLoud(true);@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      I’m an early gen Z, I’m 25 right now, and have been on the job market for 8 years so far.

      I’m tired, I’m overworked, I’m stressed, I’m looking for upward mobility in my domain but every company is making cutbacks, withholding bonuses and holding pay increases.

      I’m a software developer. I’m working a main job and freelancing on the side to make ends meet, and it’s still not enough.

      I invest in my future with things like RRSP and FHSAs, I have some luxuries (small car, a dog because what is life if it’s completely miserable?), and it hurts every time I get a necessity because everything goes to rent, food, clothing, etc. and grocery bills are always close to $200 for 2 people, even at the cheaper grocery stores.

      Everything’s down on quality, nothing lasts, so we either have to buy things over and over, or save up a ton of money to pay luxury prices for a decent product that won’t break the very fucking second the warranty expires.

      We’re getting gouged as much as possible. My group is particular because we started our careers slightly before or during the 2020 pandemic, where companies learned that they could gouge the fuck out of everyone on necessities, and people starting out fresh are hit the hardest as they don’t have savings or mature investments.

      • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        I promise you, I have no savings nor investments, mature or otherwise.

        I completely understand where you’re coming from. I’ve long considered that the next generation is going to be royalty screwed. Millennials are not doing great. I know many that are struggling, but gen z didn’t even get a chance.

        Give your dog some pets for me and I hope things get better soon… Or the government collapses under the insurmountable weight of all the bribery that’s going on.

  • Margot Robbie@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I think besides having better tech literacy, millennials also tend to be much more cynical about the state of the world. There is only so much you can take of taking the blame for ending the good old days while being called lazy and entitled before you get sick and tired of it all. Hell, you can see that in this very thread of some of us project our own cynicism onto Gen Z.

    I don’t see that doomerism we millennials have in most of Gen Z. While we grew up in a world where we resigned to the fact that everything is getting worse, they grew up in a world where things are already terrible, and they think it needs to be fixed, and I have high hopes for them.

    And I am so sick and tired of being sick and tired of everything, all the time. So I decided to change.

    • TheLadyAugust@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I’ve definitely caught myself in the doom attitude. But I’ve been waiting for 30 years to for enough reinforcements to fight a winning fight against the boomers and their many terrible ideas. Here they are. Every millennial still able to fight, its back the the trenches. Our allies have the energy to push our fight through the doom, millennials and gen z together.

      (And a huge thank you to the few boomers fighting along side us.)

  • ByteJunk@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    There’s strong statistical evidence suggesting that millennials are, on average, older than gen z’ers. It not clear from the latest studies what could have caused this presumed age gap.

    Those same studies also evidenced the startling fact that the tested individuals shared over 99.9% of their genome and could in fact belong to the same species, which is what prompted all the recent controversy after one of the lead researchers said in a televised interview that “they’re all people”.

  • HipPriest@kbin.social
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    7 months ago

    Definitely as a millennial I’m of the last generation that will remember arranging to meet up somewhere in advance and sticking to that plan (or rearranging over landline with more than a day’s notice…)

    But something I’ve noticed when I ask people in my team what their dream jobs are the younger people tend to say ‘run their own businesses’, ‘work for themselves’ etc. Whereas in our generation (in my circles anyway) that definitely wasn’t so prominent. Maybe a side effect of seeing influencers making it big?

    • MrZee@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Just spitballing here, but the “dream job” question might also come down to the destruction of the middle class (and the recognition thereof). 20 years ago it looked a lot more like you could make a good living working for someone else, doing something interesting. Plus there was more trust that employers would “do right” by their employees. There were pensions and quality healthcare benefits.

      Now all that (and the security it brings) has dissolved. It may not be Gen Z people wanting to make it big or be a celebrity, but a desire to live comfortably and seeing that they can’t trust an employer to let them do that. If the only way you can build security for yourself is by building a big pile of money, then people are going to seek that out.

      Edit: and when I say that “20 years ago” these things existed, I don’t mean that they were still functioning like they did another generation earlier, but it was way better than it is now and there was less awareness of what was happening.

    • Altima NEO@lemmy.zip
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      7 months ago

      I’m among the first millennials. I grew up without a computer. While we had that single, ancient Apple II for the Oregon trail, it was just as a “treat” and never in any serious educational use. Didn’t even have a computer lab till high school, and all they really taught us was word processing/typing. I was lucky we had some extra off site courses available that taught some IT, CAD, HTML, and programming. But that was by the end of the 90s, 1998-99.

      But yeah, point in making is while computers were around, not everyone really knew about them. I think there were a good number of middle class millennials who got to grow up with access to a computer at home. My family was too broke to lay down 2 grand on a computer that my parents had no understanding what it was useful for.

  • vividspecter@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago
    • Gen Z (especially women) are typically a bit more progressive than millennials. There’s a minority of Gen Z conservative men, but it’s overstated.

    • Arguably better media literacy amongst Gen Z, likely because they grew up with social media at its peak.

    • Better tech literacy amongst millenials perhaps due to multiple major technical changes during that period and harder to use systems

    I’d say though that millenials and Gen Z are actually very similar on the whole in their beliefs, just with differences in degree. There’s a bigger gap from both of these generations to Gen X and Boomers. You can see this from the much higher conservative voting rates that kick in from Gen X and later.

    • SoylentBlake@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      I keep seeing report after report that Gen Z keeps falling for internet scams at an alarmingly high rate

      …which, I mean, idk, maaaybe?

      Media literacy and scam discernment, I feel like we as millennials grew up alongside the rise of disinformation and the greater Enshitification of the internet, like this is our wheelhouse.

      I remember icq, yahoo chat rooms, Napster and limewire, playing MUDS and ADOM, then digg, myspace. I remember when the Internet was fun, now, it’s just advertisers. I quit Facebook 7 years ago. I quit reddit with the API dick punch. I’ve been advertised to so much in my life that if I see a movie trailer it makes me not want to see it.

      The internet can be great. Getting knowledge off it is amazing. I personal feel like the library of Congress should be made available online for free and all this knowledge thats hiding behind pay gates needs to be visited by the freedom fairy. I hope I can help facilitate this in my lifetime.

      With media, I can only speak for myself, but I quit watching news in 2008. Ill read my news and not have some talking head attempt to emotionally manipulate me while they leave out key facts that don’t fit their narrative, thanks. Televised news has been more detrimental to us as a whole, imo.

      My bullshit meter is simple. If whom or whatever is saying something that makes it an us vs them issue, dividing the people up, then they’re wrong. Almost universally. If your answer is only found down around the fallen, you aren’t bringing an answer, yr bringing an excuse to violence.

      Real leadership, real progress, lifts up those it encounters. The rising tide is supposed to lift all ships. Cept in this dystopic reality, motherfuckers chained everyone’s ships to the dock and the rising tide just overcame and sank them. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, until the poor get even.

      I’m dismayed we have to keep repeating this pattern. America had the same problems 100 years ago. We’ve had an entire century to do something about it, but fucking NOPE. An entire century wasted in my opinion. Better tech is cool, but if it doesn’t improve the lives of us all, than it fails the reasoning for tools existing in the first place, which is to relieve society if the many necessary hours of labor.

      • LegionEris [she/her]@feddit.nl
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        7 months ago

        I keep seeing report after report that Gen Z keeps falling for internet scams at an alarmingly high rate

        …which, I mean, idk, maaaybe?

        I feel like very young people are just more likely to get scammed due to lack of life experience. There are just a bunch of new avenues for scammers to access young people. I bet it pans out that it’s not the generation, it’s the age group.

  • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    Even the clumsiest millennials have a level of body awareness that’s rare in gen z-ers, because we grew up in dangerous physical environments.

  • dragontamer@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Millennials are ignorant of Rodney King Riots, Desert Storm, Waco / Oklahoma City Bomber (far right domestic terrorism), Newt Gingrich’s rise of the ‘Party of No’, and other such political events of their era.

    Gen Z however is keenly aware of the problems occurring around them.

    • Deceptichum@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      What an idiotic take.

      Mate we were literal children during these events.

      Much like Zoomers are young adults or teens today, look at our teenage years and young adulthood and focus on those events. No Zoomer was politically motivated at 4 years old nor was I during the Rodney King Riots.

      We fucking had global protests with hundreds of millions standing up against the 1% and American wars.

    • Kalash@feddit.ch
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      7 months ago

      Millennials are ignorant of […]

      Most Millenials aren’t actually Americans, so why should they give a fuck?

    • ElleChaise@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      I am a millennial, and I was giggling during the entire first half of your comment due to knowing about every single thing you say we don’t know about. Do you think we didn’t have siblings, cousins, parents? This reminds me that we are all products of our own generation, and that it’s easy to become out of touch with the next or the last one without knowing it. Maybe talk to more millennials if you think they all don’t know about those events. And by the way, the reason most young people will fail on the cranberries question isn’t because the event it protested was so long ago; it’s because most people everywhere at any point in time simply don’t know much about English history or the IRA/the troubles. Most of my elders who were young adults and adults in the 90s don’t know what that song is about either.

    • CarlsIII@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      I’m a millennial who was aware of all the things you said we were ignorant of. Also, I was an adult when Columbine happened.