Nice hope they won’t budge.
✌🏽
Very unlikely.
Bye Felecia
Back to Vine we go
Cool, please do.
Awesome, do META next please!
Never happen, why would the government shut down one of its favorite surveillance tools.
I found out recently that lots of people here use and defend Meta because of things like the Quest and Facebook. Lots of Lemmy people use Meta and won’t admit it. They will quickly ignore anti Meta comments to focus on other social media companies even though Meta is by far the most egregious.
As far as I’m concerned META ruined the Oculus. As soon as they bought them out, I bought a Vive (which has worked great for years).
But how does that help capitalists make more money by eliminating their competition?
Before X?
X seems to be destroying itself without any external intervention lol
Elon Musk vs. Twitter, lol (timestamped)
Boy I’d love it if that were really true.
Way way way way too many idiots still going there.
You can make a good case for breaking up Facebook. Twitter is just twitter and is slowly eating itself. Eventually, the advertisers will see just how much of the userbase are bots and either pull or negotiate for lower rates.
If money wasn’t the point, then influence was. Congress is right to shut them down.
Foreign owned, FARA-unregistered influence operations have never been a facet of “free speech” in the USA.
Money is still the point. There’s an entire world outside the US.
They’d lose money in a sale as they’d lose their IP.
It’s pretty weird that they’d admit it.
The smart move would have been to sell it and take the L, and use the new money to build the next thing.
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Let’s be honest, this is only their outlook until the courts make their decision. They’ll sell if that doesn’t go in their favour.
I do wonder if this is america being anti communist as history has shown before. Not to say China is actually communist but the economic system is hybrid socialist/capitalist and China is catching up or surpassing america so with this said what’s to say america starts using this tactic against more of chinas Chinese owned exports?
Beyond that america has meta which has done much the same as tiktok, targeting youth, furthering mental health issue, spying, anti trust and coverups yet they get a slap on the wrists.
Anti communist? With everything else we buy from China, this is the tipping point to be anti-communist? How about all the US social media platforms that China won’t let in? Is that “anti-capitalist?”
Um yeah this is cold war type shit. It’s not a “tipping point”, just part of that broader context.
socialism has always been anti capitalism. socialism is based on principles like international revolution and a highly configured economic structures whereas capitalism is extraction of capital which western countries have been doing in china as much as china will allow but this isn’t what i am arguing.
something to keep in mind is that we don’t buy tiktok, similarly to meta and alphabet (google).
brief easy to read history of cold war activity.
Cuba and North Korea (the forgotten war) are both good to look in to. i hope the history can bring context to my previous statement as geopolitics is never as it seems.
While I appreciate the additional info, that really doesn’t add to the conversation about what the tipping point is for the parent comment.
i was not talking about a tipping point, i was focused on the geopolitics in my original comment.
Anti communist? With everything else we buy from China
would you argue America to be pro communist?
this is the tipping point to be anti-communist?
maybe but i’ll be honest, i dont know what you mean by this, the fight against communism has been a steady state of proxy wars, embargoes, surveillance and propaganda campaigns, so i would definitely say banning tiktok sits within embargo and propaganda.
How about all the US social media platforms that China won’t let in?
yea socialism is apposed/untrusting of capitalist products, usually seen as exploitive by the communist this is due in part to the never ending revolution.
Is that “anti-capitalist?”
100%
I didn’t argue that we are pro-communist.
The point of my observation was that the premise of the TikTok sale is “anti-communist” and that it’s being brought up at all against the background of all the existing, deep economic ties between the US and China. IOW the US putting its foot down on TikTok is anti-communist, but accepting everything else gets a pass?
Funny that you point out the mistrust of (in this context of social media) western products as being exploitative when the Chinese exploitation of data and use of algorithms to manipulate what we see on TikTok is exactly one of the reasons the US wants the sale.
you make a good point that Tiktok is doing some shady stuff but meta were court covertly collecting data from Snapchat through unknowing users devices.
should Facebook be banned or at least forced to sell? this is why the fiasco is coming across as anti-communist, an extension of cold war hostilities.
IOW the US putting its foot down on TikTok is anti-communist, but accepting everything else gets a pass
Tiktok offers no financial incentive to America unlike Chinese exports, apple are not about to pay a reasonable amount to create an iPhone in America, china is in a pretty good position with its fabrication and engineering, consumer products or even solar panels are far superior to what America can make on a similar budget.
Funny that you point out the mistrust of (in this context of social media) western products as being exploitative when the Chinese exploitation of data and use of algorithms to manipulate what we see on TikTok is exactly one of the reasons the US wants the sale.
this is because you view things through a capitalist scope, i am guilty of this too. Facebook as linked in the above article does the same.
They are not the same. One manipulates and exploits its own country’s citizens for profit, the other exploits and manipulates both its own and citizens of other countries for profit and government data collection.
While TikTok doesn’t offer financial incentive to any US corporation, it certainly offers incentives to the users of the platform.
Let’s not move the goalposts/butwhatabout to talking about minors using social media or Chinese manufacturing, that’s too much to get into and keep it focused on the communist/capitalist debate and why TikTok is being treated as it is.
It’s America being "anti criticise Israel "
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/03/tiktok-bill-foreign-influence/677806/
It’s less about communism and more about authoritarianism. Even historically, communism was (IMO) just the trigger word associated with a slide into authoritarianism … which is what seemingly happened in countries that had a communist uprising to overthrow the government and broader “owning class.”
China seemed like they were on course to be a friendly communist country at one point, but they’ve slid back into authoritarianism under Xi.
I fully expect more hostility towards Chinese exports. Part of the reason for that is going to be that China is happy to use government money to subsidize certain industries to help gain dominance (Sherrod Brown - D Ohio) was recently speaking out about the risk Chinese subsidized EVs pose to the US auto industry domestically and internationally.
communism is not innately authoritarian same with libertarianism and capitalism instead its bad actors that make it so and once bad actors get involved then communism is not meeting its definition. china is a weird one where its communist in name alone with its hybrid economic system and repressive regime which goes against core principles of socialism/communism. i think the death of the USSR which had lead the revolution, as well as the many western embargoes on socialist countries have soured relations.
if your interested in podcasts id like to recommend you listen to blowback as it follows US hostilities against socialism/communism. i believe its on several platforms
A part of me genuinely would like to see communism work.
Another part of my looks at the past century and sees the same pattern of well meaning revolution to communism, that results in a corrupt government that owns and controls everything.
I don’t think the Russian people that got the ball rolling for the USSR were stupid or evil, but I also don’t think it worked out like they wanted… and I think that’s true of every other case of communism that’s been tried in practice.
Part of the problem is without ownership, you don’t own the situation. Which house is taken better care of, the one that’s rented or the one that’s owned?
I think capitalism with regulation to keep money out of politics, mixed with more social programs (particularly socializing the insurance industry) makes the most sense.
personally, communism in a capitalistic world is very hard.
Cuba wanted to break away from American capitalists and gangsters using Cuba to store money and exploit the Cubans for sugar plantations then the US sets embargoes, Cuba maintains its independence and manages to get its literacy level up to 1953—56% 1970—88% 1986—nearly 100% implemented free social health care with newly built hospitals and students had to work in small towns and villages for part of they’re doctorate. but American meddling was constant with the Cuban missile crises which laughable America clutched they’re purls whilst having setup nukes on the USSR’s doorstep as if that wasn’t threatening.
Cuba has sadly remained under the sanctions and is struggling to stay afloat.
its important to view economics outside of our place of living, while western life is so so although homelessness is forever on the rise but outside of these countries life is different and the people are very much exploited by capitalism whether through ford or amazon, this is why we live the way we do.
I agree with your last paragraph in particular, I think if we ever want to have a hope of capitalism, communism, or socialism it starts with teaching people “the cheapest option isn’t the best.”
I am fortunate to have a well paying job. I do not buy cheap third world or authoritarian made products unless I absolutely have to. I go out of my way to find products made in democracies that have stronger labor and environmental laws. A recent example, I could’ve gotten cheap placemats for my table or a cheap table off of Amazon or at a department store.
Instead, I paid local Amish carpenters to build me a table and bought placemats from a company in Indiana. I also encourage anyone and everyone who has the means to do the same. Try and look at the product beyond “what it does” and “what it costs you.” If nobody was willing to buy an iPhone made with slave labor, the gears at Apple would turn very very quickly.
Edit: And yes, it’s awful how we’ve treated our neighbors to the south.
I agree with your last paragraph in particular, I think if we ever want to have a hope of capitalism, communism, or socialism it starts with teaching people “the cheapest option isn’t the best.”
i am glad you can take something from that, sadly while your doing your part in society it still leave others to be exploited and a few smart consumers wont stop this. capitalism is by design repressive, while it exploits me and you some what the people in Afghanistan, China, South America to name a few beer the true brunt of it. suicide nets around Chinese factories, opium doubling in Afghanistan since us meddling as well as political in stability and South America is treated like a stopping ground for the rich where they’ll own holiday homes hotel pricing locals out or run plantations.
i campaign with the socialist party, help with protests and union action, eventually i hope for international reforms.
if you’d be interested in hearing more about socialism id be more than happy to talk.
It may be simplistic, but the short version of what you seem to be saying at the beginning is: “every ‘-ism’ is inherently neutral until people get involved.”
Which is why I believe no system that is conceived by humans will ever be not exploited.
This is very true, a knife isn’t inherently evil.
Though some systems are more susceptible to manipulation, dictatorships, free market capitalism and feudalism are some of the worst culprit’s.
Which is why I believe no system that is conceived by humans will ever be not exploited.
Sadly whilst we occupy the word in clusters of people we must have a system of governess
dictatorships, free market capitalism and feudalism are some of the worst culprit’s.
Agree. Thinking about it, the romantic in me wants to believe that the best system was probably the small indigenous tribal units. Collective social goals, group welfare, close-knit often matriarch families, conservation mindset…
A bit hard to pull off in the 21st century world though. :/
Sounds like primitive communism, its dreamy but wouldn’t take much for a few tribes to consolidate power leading to a form of feudalism and class issue between different tribes.
This is something democratic socialism tries to address
If they said or implied anything else, they would lose all leverage. The public couldn’t care less about who owns tiktok, so they need people to think they’ll lose it to have any public support.
US should call their bluff. If Tiktok gets banned, people will complain for a little bit until people forget and move on to what’s next. Why doesn’t an American company make something that’s practically identical? People will be all desperate for their 5 second dopamine rush that they will download anything.
India did this and Instagram reels is the main one that benefited. Probably be the same for US if it pulls through on this.
They can’t, the algorithm is the best part about tiktok and none of the competitors come close.
That’s interesting, what’s so clever or original about its algorithm?
If I remember correctly from my rabbit hole, it tracks your viewing habits by a far wider list of variables and on a micromanaged scale. It can be annoying if you have someone sending you content you don’t like because viewing them will slot them into your feed immediately, but it’s just as quick to discard those things. I found it very easy to train for my interests in cooking, goblincore, and irrational humor.
Meanwhile, YT Shorts sees me watch one video then gives me nothing but that.
If you have to ask that question you definitely don’t use Tiktok it’s far far superior algorithmically than Reels and YT Shorts which are both absolute garbage.
Vine.co returns!
I think Elon might just do that based on what I’ve been reading.
It would be his first good instinct. But bringing back the domain is t going to bring back the magic. Vine is dead and nothing Musked is going to be any fun.
Dear god no
As I recall, the guy who makes Pixelfed (dansup?) is also working on a vine clone called loops. It looks like the site is https://loops.video/ Doesn’t appear to be operational yet.
i never got to experience vine (and google+)
YouTube and Instagram already have identical features. Most US creators who post on Tik Tok also use those platforms already
Leaving US in darkness
TikTok users are already in darkness, unless you think it’s a happy coincidence that their algorithm suppresses anti-China views, support for Hong Kong, and support for Taiwan. Just because you can’t notice you’re being deceived doesn’t mean you aren’t.
We tried that with facebook in the eu. Didn’t work
Me, an American, to my German cousin:
“So, yeah, I’m changing email addresses, here’s my new one.”
“Email? Are you using WhatsApp?”
“Er, no, how about text?”
“We all have WhatsApp.”
“Okay, maybe Google Chat?”
“WhatsApp? WhatsApp.”
I’ve had basically the same conversation with my sister who lives in Albania. I just want to use something encrypted like signal but she just refuses and says it’s either WhatsApp or Facebook messenger. Cause of that I barely talk to her.
WhatsApp is e2e encrypted. It uses the same tech as Signal.
The owner is a problem though.
bring fediverse flags to Eurovision then.
*allegedly
No one knows for sure, since WhatsApp is proprietary
So are Signal’s serverside components.
Uh, no? I don’t know who told you this lie, but https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server
Btw it wouldn’t even matter, since the encryption happens in the client app. The server basically just passes around encrypted pieces of data between devices.
Here’s the trick (maybe): “Don’t you know that WhatsApp is owned by Meta and collecting information on your chat metadata (who you chat to, when, your contacts, their contacts).”
Tell them to get Signal. If there’s any country on this planet where convincing people to use Signal is easier, it must be Germany. GMaps streetview was banned there until recently, everyone uses fake names on Facebook, if they even made one in the first place.
Surely they must be amenable to Signal
We’re gonna try harder next time
Y’all are dumb as hell for supporting this bill. It doesn’t just ban tiktok, it applies to any app with 20% or more ownership by any person/entity from a country that is a “foreign adversary”.
China does the same.
So we should do whatever China does??? Are you ready for the firewall? lmfao
Sorry why should I be against that?
…ok? You realize that actually makes it even better right?
Im not making a stance on it but I read more to it.
It seems very focused on “social media” as in software that is about users sharing their own content with other users with 1,000,000 monthly active users.
Those that support it on tiktok likely would for other similar services.
The part that stands out to me is it mentions real time communication. So Telegram probably counts.
It lists the foreign adversaries, they aren’t just made up on a whim. Iran, N. Korea, China, Russia.
Where is WhatsApp based?
WhatsApp is American owned. You may be thinking of WeChat?
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Yes I paraphrased the actual bill. Its broad but not without limits.
Ok…?
A lot of the users here are just butthurt anti social media people, not actually principled free speech or rule of law advocates. This ban is arguably unconstitutional and TikTok is being targeted for purely political reasons, not because of any credible threat to “national security.” This is some Patriot Act level overreach bullshit, but the clueless mainstream just clamors for it because CNN/Fox spends hours of airtime decrying the dangers of TikTok, and a fraction doing the same for Meta/X/Reddit.
TikTok is literally controlled directly by the Chinese government, which is officially considered a foreign adversary (for a good reason)
Source?
There are more than enough sources, just google “TikTok Chinese government influence”. Just a few examples:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/iainmartin/2023/07/26/tiktok-chinese-propaganda-ads-europe/
https://www.axios.com/2024/03/11/tiktok-china-us-elections-influence
Also, just think about it: The CCP loves spreading propaganda. There’s a massive social media platform controlled by China, which is used by young people in foreign adversary nations. Why wouldn’t they leverage this platform to spread their lies and influence people? It’s literally the perfect opportunity.
That’s all platform agnostic. You think they didn’t have accounts and ads on every major service?
Wow. How predictable. Nothing you posted has anything to do with the Chinese government “literally directly controlling” TikTok, despite those being the exact words you chose and used.
Instead, you posted one story about TikTok in Europe running ads by the CCP, and two about the CCP using accounts on TikTok.
It’s a well known fact that the CCP runs accounts on Reddit and other socials. TikTok accepting and running ads from the CCP in Europe is a European problem. Could be addressed by updated regulations around ads, idk, I’m not European. Meta could run ads from the CCP or Russia in Europe, perhaps? Or maybe TikTok broke European advertising regulations. Still, has nothing to do with the USA.
So again, you people are repeating US intelligence propaganda about the Chinese government “owning and controlling” TikTok and then posting “proof” that proves nothing.
Try again?
It’s painfully apparent you have a fundamental lack of understanding of how the CCP works in relation to companies in China. Or how they behave on the world stage outside of your ech chamber. If they operate in a critical sector, they are controlled by the CCP. I mean, you do accept that the CCP is an oppressive, authoritarian regime, right? If you don’t accept that, then we can’t carry on because you’re not in the same reality or arguing in bad faith.
And before the defense: “but they’re really capitalists” - yeah, so what? Errybody greedy. Still doesn’t change that the CCP is an authoritarian regime. I have the feeling that no matter what, you’re going to move the goalposts because, I dunno, America bad? (and yeah, we’ve got a lot to account for and I’m no 'merica cheerleader). And no amount of evidence will sway you.
May you have the day you deserve.
Not sure if you’ve been paying attention but citizens have no say over stuff like this. 99% of the politicians in office were placed there by rich people - they have the only true votes. The bill included money to Ukraine (great), and Israel (WTF), and Taiwan, and TikTok. It shouldn’t be legal to package all that stuff together, but it’s pretty standard. Anyway not sure who you’re talking to - there are like a few hundred politicians who supported this bill, most of them probably for other reasons, and none of them are on Lemmy.
Talking about the comments here.
I see, well Lemmy is a bunch of Reddit refugees for the most part. Probably happy to see social media corps dying no matter how?
