I always considered marriage the epitome of feeling connected: you share a life with a partner and maybe even have children. Society at least acts like it is.
I have a coworker in his 40s, conservative and Christian, married to a woman holding a job, he is also employed and has a good job, all things considered and they have a child.
I don’t see this person much but each time he sees me he approaches to basically complain and rant, mostly about democrats and foreigners, getting very emotional to the point of crying.
At first I hated him for spewing so much shit, but now I think I’m starting to pity him: he has a job, is married to a working woman, they have a child, they are homeowners… and he still feels angry and needs to rant to feel good. It’s like he’s angry at everything.
Which takes me to think, maybe there are things men need emotionally that women cannot provide, but I couldn’t write a list.
What are some of these connections men need out of a marriage?
Your coworker is a twat.
Ignoring his political alignment, anybody who comes to work and vent about their home life just sucks in general.
Fucking energy vampire.
They’re not lonely, they’re just assholes.
The thing about marriage is that anybody can do it. You don’t have to love somebody to marry them. It isn’t special. There’s no test you have to take together or qualifications you have to meet.
So yeah - he’s angry, and lonely, and he’s also married, but none of those things are related to each other.
Sounds like he needs therapy, but in our society men aren’t encouraged to share emotions if it doesn’t perpetuate an image of strength. So he’s expressing his emotions in a “socially acceptable” way: anger. Which is probably what also got him into these backwards ideas about his political ideology as well.
Marriage is a legal and religious construct. It does not fix a lack of connection.
I met a former religious couple at my old job.
She and her husband are in their 40s and tried to invite us to an orgy. I did the polite thing and let them know maybe later.
She showed me photos of her dressed like an Amish person in her 30s. She shared that during that time, her kids and church kept her busy. She and her husband never felt aligned, but they feel a strong loneliness when they’re not together.
And when her kids went to college, she and her husband finally bonded and discovered they both love orgies. And it was only at that moment when, after like 20 years of marriage, did they actually connect as human beings.
Wild.
Aww, what a cute story. I’m happy for them
What are some of these connections men need out of a marriage?
Basically the same connections that women need out of a marriage. A peer group, a purpose, and friend groups to share interests with.
Unfortunately many, if not most, people simply don’t know how to go about it. They throw themselves into their work and whatever of their time is leftover gets dedicated to family. The interests and friends that they had prior to marriage and kids are left behind and those sacrifices leave them feeling alone and unfulfilled. They also don’t understand WHY they feel that way when to the best of their understanding they’re doing everything right!
Marriage isn’t, except in exceedingly rare instances, a “one stop shop” where your partner somehow magically fulfills your every need. That’s straight up Disney Movie bullshit.
People, regardless of gender identity, absolutely REQUIRE relationships outside of their marriage.
A peer group, a purpose, and friend groups to share interests with.
Unfortunately many, if not most, people simply don’t know how to go about it. They throw themselves into their work and whatever of their time is leftover gets dedicated to family. The interests and friends that they had prior to marriage and kids are left behind and those sacrifices leave them feeling alone and unfulfilled. They also don’t understand WHY they feel that way when to the best of their understanding they’re doing everything right!
I really feel this. I am especially struggling with making friends in a new place. I have hobbies, but they are solitary so they don’t help me with my loneliness. And it doesn’t help that work takes up more of my time than I wish it did.
Please don’t judge what women can provide by this sad, angry man.
To your core topic, of course you can be married and lonely. Being married doesn’t necessarily mean you are spending a lot of quality time together, or genuinely communicating when you do. Married people have jobs, housework, kids to take care of, and whatever time remains after that is often exhausted recovery time when not a lot of social intercourse is happening.
Conservatives often have more of a “battle of the sexes” mentality where men are supposed to be MEN and women are supposed to know their place. First of all this warps everyone since these roles may not suit their native personality. And on top of that, the male role includes a bunch of sexism - be stoic around women, etc. Conservative men try to be stoic overall, but a lot of them are also loudmouths because their values are so black-and-white they have a tendency to really, really think they are right and therefore should tell the world.
This guy is probably stoic around his wife and a loudmouth at work. A healthier person would have a marriage where they can talk about what’s bothering them, and then be professional at work. He’s clearly got emotional problems but then Conservatives also have backwards attitudes about mental health. It’s not something they think about and try to manage. Again: black and white. If you’re not fucking crazy then you don’t have a mental health problem, you just need to suck it up. It’s no failing of this man if he is cracking. He’s been set up to fail.
Absolutely you should pity him. That doesn’t mean you have to listen to his loudmouth politics in the workplace.
He probably watches a lot of right wing/conservative media, and those shows generally aim to get people riled up to be against democrats and foreigners to an unreasonable extent. That and other personal issues messed up his brain. Like others have said, dude needs therapy.
Yes, it’s possible to feel lonely while you’re married. Because “to feel lonely” might mean a thousand different things: lack of physical affection, lack of emotional bonding, lack of intellectual stimulus, lack of ability to coordinate and do stuff together… and only some of those are fulfilled by a romantic relationship. (A good relationship should fulfil more of them, but you won’t get the full package ever.) And often the other person doesn’t have time for you, even if they’re trying their hardest to be a good mate.
That said, it doesn’t seem to me that he feels lonely, but rather that he feels frustrated with something. As people said perhaps therapy would do him good.
look, this person is probably an asshole regardless, but to answer you: Yes. Maybe more than if you are single. I stated dating a guy that was super rich and good-looking and he was super nice to me, It was like a real life fairy tale… until we got married and the routine started to show us how lonely we were with each other. We had nothing in comom, he was a bit dumb and shallow and the only subject he was interested was sports. I hate sports and like movies, shows and science. At the end he would say i was too nerd and I would say he was too dumb, but the reality is that he was very nice and so did I, we just were not ment for each other.
Yes, but based on your description that guy has other issues. He should probably see a therapist.
Other commenters have done a better job addressing your questions more directly, but I want to piggyback off of this question to point something else out: the atomic family, the suburban dream is extremely isolating and breeds loneliness
When you live in your house, only enter and leave by the garage and your neighbors do the same, you will never interact with your neighbors, and your neighbors will never interact with you.
Driving to the store in your personal vehicle there’s no sense of shared identity to start interacting with other people meaningfully. You’re just various individuals in the same space
Having kids can be extremely isolating as to go out to do anything you must either have a babysitter (and be able to afford said babysitter) or bring the kids with you. No opportunity for spontaneity, and it quickly gets expensive to just spend grownup time with friends unless you and your partner spend the time seperately. And taking your kids to events means paying more attention to your kids and the event than meeting anyone else. And if you have a special needs child it can be even more isolating as you are no longer sharing experiences with your fellow parents except for those who also have special needs kids.
We need to do things to foster community and encourage people to talk to strangers more. Having good conversations with strangers is how you make friends, and is a great treatment for loneliness
The decline of the Third Space is an interesting social phenomenon.
The more comments I read the more apt this is. Without places to just be, with no expectation or obligation to be a consumer, somewhere to be around people with or without socializing. Makes you feel like part of your community, part of something that’s bigger than you, to be seen, to be acknowledged.
Anyone can be lonely at any time, even surrounded by people who love them.
I’m happily married, I love my wife very much, she is my favorite person and I would be devastated and lost without her. Still, sometimes I feel lonely.
Sometimes I think about my dad who isn’t with us any longer and I feel lonely. Sometimes I think about work stress and I feel lonely. Sometimes I feel lonely for no damn reason at all.
None of that has anything to do with how much I love my wife, or her ability to “provide”; people are just complicated.
It’s easy to feel lonely around your wife if you don’t think women are people. And if he’s a Republican in 2024, that’s probably how he thinks. Drink your respect women juice and you’ll find marriage much more enjoyable.
Exactly and OP is giving people like him a out by pitying him and using the phrase “there are things men need emotionally that women cannot provide”
why should one gender’s emotional needs be fulfilled by another? that’s misogynist by nature
OP’s coworker is an horrible person and deserves evactly what he’s getting and much worse
I think what OP should have said is that people have needs, and one single partner can’t provide all of those needs
Which takes me to think, maybe there are things men need emotionally that women cannot provide, but I couldn’t write a list.
This is a ridiculous conclusion. Even taking out the arbitrary gender roles, it’s a ridiculous generalization.
Exactly. Maybe this man isn’t connecting with his partner because of his attitude and viewpoints.
Yes, it’s entirely possible to be married and still feel alone.
However, ranting about democrats and foreigners tells me this is not about being married or not. The guy has problems and worries that have nothing to do with marriage.
Still, I can somewhat relate. Living in another country since many years (because reasons), and I don’t feel at home. Happily married, with kids, all good. But I’m not home, y’know?
People here don’t need me; they all hang out with their childhood friends they’ve known forever. I’m the new guy, even after all these years. That makes me feel lonely. And it has nothing to do with being married.
I think you are conflating the vision of success with happiness. These two things hold no relation.
