Apparently there’s an issue with some instances banning users for criticizing authoritarian governments. Is lemmy.world a safe place to criticize governments?
Well let’s find out: Free Ukraine! Fuck Russia. Fuck China!
Are you still with us now?
I think Winnie the Pooh got him.
Oh bother.
He found a window and pavement
They have comments from a couple hours ago.
Mao Zedong is objectively one of the worst people in all of human history, and his influence held China back for decades, and continues to harm it to this day.
fuck the orcs. fuck the CCCP. Winne the Pooh shouldn’t run a country
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Now this is what I am here for.
they will ban my account and still come to my instance to read about the AI research.
why was this removed?
It was removed, and I was marked as a bot.
I am not a bot!
One joke
lol social credit Winnie the Pooh!! Updoots for this brave r*dditor, please.
Lots of racism in this thread
how was it racist?
So, the latest thing that I’ve seen is that supporters of the CCP will label anything critical of the CCP as “racism against asians”. Not sure if that’s the case here, but there have been a lot of posts about the CCP, so… maybe?
Its the first move in the foreign troll farm playbook. Use the enemies own morality against them. You see this in threads discussing the Uigher genocide. To the 50 cent poster it is both morally wrong for you to criticize it because you are just a sinophobe, but on the other hand the CCP actions are justified because they are protecting Chinese cultural identity. Its just typical fascist hypocrisy logic.
I don’t know of any as long as it is in the correct community.
There is a mod log on Lemmy so you can see why people get banned.
Slightly tangential question, is lemmy.ml a Marxist/Leninist instance? I had seen some users insinuate that but I have no fucking clue if they were just saying shit.
The owners are iirc but I don’t think there’s any ideology tied to the instance itself
So, the creators of Lemmy itself (and it’s “home” instance lemmy.ml) are Marxist/Leninists (otherwise known as “tankies”).
However, they have been smart enough to contain the most virulent tankie bullshit over in LemmyGrad.ml, which most big instances have specifically disconnected themselves from.
They also seem to be pretty hands-off in terms of censorship/banning/belittling “libs” on lemmy.ml and have kept it pretty open. For instance, I created a LeftistInfighting community and have been allowed to express anarchist views there. (I created it because I was immediately banned from LemmyGrad, which had its own LeftistInfighting community that I had the audacity to engage in and link to wikipedia in a comment)
Keep it in the politics subs.
But I hope there is less censorship, it was a shame that lemmy.ml removed this well-sourced comment (and banned the user) -
You couldn’t have cherry-picked a more inflammatory comment to defend. Truly such a shame that people who misrepresent data for the sake of their anti-trans stances have their obvious rage-bait posts removed.
How is writing a high-effort long comment explaining one’s viewpoints, with sources to back up the opinion-- ragebait? Ragebait is low-effort content that only seeks to troll.
misrepresent data
You gotta admit, that it’s way too much effort to troll?
He could’ve said something simple, and it would’ve received the same reaction.
I don’t really feel like explaining what bad-faith arguments are to someone who’s clearly concern trolling so I’ll just leave it at that.
The post you’re replying to is very well thought out, and you’re just saying that they’re “misrepresenting data.” Please be more specific than that, because right now you are not very convincing and they are.
Edit: I am positive this thread is being brigaded now, probably with alt accounts from this Amby person. They get upvoted in waves, not gradually like how everyone else has been. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.
It’s not alt accounts. The base users of Lemmy platform as a whole (lemmy.ml, et al) do not want to see cherry picked, anecdotal transphobia disguised under civility
It’s clearly alt accounts lol
Users read and upvote comments you disagree with
Must be alt accounts.
Why did you create alts to down vote Amby and my comments?!
Sure bud whatever helps you cope.
I don’t really feel compelled to engage with such a bad-faith argument but i’ll humor you a bit.
In all my research I couldn’t find a single study, anywhere, demonstrating an objective quality of life improvement. These would be measurable metrics like: * Life expectance. ** * suicide rate.** * …
They ask subjects how they feel about suicide. This is an effective proxy for, “are you happy with the major medical procedure you just asked for?” Unsurprisingly, this is subject to enormous bias. Instead I found evidence that *not* transitioning is a much better, much more effective treatment for children.
Followed by 2 links that… don’t talk about suicidal ideation but instead about no longer feeling dysphoric.
And then the poster goes on to claim that somehow this reduces suicidal ideation in children who may be trans. This entire section does nothing to address the fact that reaffirming a trans child’s gender does, in fact reduce suicidal ideation in trans children. Obviously If a child isn’t trans, they won’t feel suicidal if they’re not allowed to transition.
Just because a thought is well worded and lengthy, does not mean it’s worth listening to.
But just because you don’t think it’s worth listening to, doesn’t mean it should be banned.
Ban outright spammers and attackers like this - https://lemmy.world/u/darknightfggot (I don’t know if his posts are still visible, I blocked him) but don’t try to ban ideas just for apparent wrongthink.
“white collar” or “clean” bigotry is still bigotry. Someone doesn’t need to shout slurs at every possible moment to spread hate and attack people’s identitie s or rights to exist.
Bigotry does not need to be tolerated full stop. It doesn’t matter how much someone dresses it up to appear palatable or how much someone claims they’re “just asking questions/just want a respectful debate” when the topic is someone’s immutable identity and right to medical treatment.
If the comment was about “black people causing the most crime in the US”, would you think it’s worth listening to? Something having citations and being written in a “civil” tone does not necessarily mean it’s high level discourse.
Some people hear dog whistles. Some don’t.
What did you think was going to happen if you defend anti-trans activism in a community where the majority of people support trans rights? It’s about time for you to have a reality check.
“Anyone who doesn’t agree with me is rage-baiting especially if they use data to do it.”
Yep that’s definitely what I said.
Wow, that’s insane. How is the discourse going to be going forward if high effort replies like that one get removed and gets the user banned
It isn’t high effort. It’s a bunch of canned “gender critical” arguments that we’ve all seen a thousand times before combined with arbitrarily dismissing all of the evidence in favor of gender affirming care for kids using specious reasoning and then citing long debunked studies like the “80% desistance rate” one.
Their bias is even more clearly demonstrated by the fact that the first study they cite isn’t hosted on any legitimate source of medical science, but on “transgendertrend.” That demonstrates that they didn’t find their data via PubMed or Google Scholar or anything, they found it by looking for cherry picked medical studies from people with an anti-trans agenda.
It’s transphobia and perpetuation of misinformation disguised as a polite conversation. It’s the same level of “discourse” as “blacks make up 12% of the population and commit 50% of the crime.”
Edit: not only is it arbitrary and awfully convenient for cherry-picking purposes to leave out longitudinal studies of mental health, since mental health is what’s at stake here, and “objective” measures are susceptible to many confounding variables and often not relevant, and standardized tests of mental health are regularly used to ascertain the efficacy of many procedures related to psychology, there are also studies that use “objective” measures such as the ones he wanted, where applicable. Here’s one that’s somewhat infamous due to one of the young adults getting a fatal complication from a surgery, but such surgeries are not performed on minors, and are not particularly dangerous, so it’s largely irrelevant: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25201798/. Here’s a list of 16 studies on this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202201/the-evidence-trans-youth-gender-affirming-medical-care.
I like China :)
Indeed, many Chinese people are very nice. Interesting language, culture, and cuisine.
But fuck the CCP.
The Romans are great! They build these seriously sturdy roads and aqueducts, promote trade, and they have some literature and stuff. It’s too bad that they’re in the habit of enslaving people and occasionally mass crucifixions.
My man out here living a peaceful life in 100 B.C.
I love China, and have a generally positive opinion about their government. I’d say 70% positive and the other 30% is because I hate oppression and censorship.
Edit: Deng was the GOAT
I have friends from China who are very good humans.
Very normal thing to say.
My personal view is very similar to @[email protected], i just didn’t say the second part.
they’re not chinese, they’re ‘good people’!
All governments should be able to be criticized if we’re going to be honest about having genuinely open discussions.
Seeing as having the ability to criticize gov’ts is a fundamental part of democracy I fail to see why any social media site would think banning it should be best-practice.
That said I do take issue with some posters who seem to rant on a specific target without any sort of evidentiary data. The slide into “I don’t need proof to back my opinion” is a prolific and dangerous thing these days.
Its always difficult separating held beliefs from personal or social identity. Evidence for or against something is rarely enough to get someone who has an identity tied to a belief to change thier opinions or not react out of a fight or flight response.
I think setting and enforcing boundaries regularly while not ostracizing or demonizing people is a better way to approach it. Its hard, takes time, and isn’t guaranteed to work; but it comes from a place of tolerance and acceptance rather than condemnation.
I agree wholeheartedly that letting rants go on unchallenged is a big issue, it provides a rallying point for others with similar beliefs and pushes the boundary back away from accountability and discussion and towards emotional and fear based outbursts. Do you think there is room for healthy discussion here on the fediverse and specifically in this instance?
Do you think there is room for healthy discussion here on the fediverse and specifically in this instance?
Yes. But even just looking through this thread it seems the problems follow the same patterns anyway.
I am an ally of all persecuted groups and I ask for evidence from those who choose to state their opinions. If none is willingly provided I block them. This, to me, is the only way social media can be fairly run. Anything more than that becomes what twatter, f b and reditt have become.
Exceptions to the above will always have to be made tho, ie: direct threats, doxxing, etc. … what mods are for.
That is definitely one of the issues with any social platform or outlet. There is always the push to form in and out groups based on unifying characteristics, behaviors, social status, etc. I do think a major thing that is missed is calling out behaviors and beliefs that are not supported by facts; e.g. giving the same weight of truth or spotlight to outlandish conspiracy theories vs. scientifically backed data (climate change is a good example)
Hopefully this place can find a happy medium that invites good faith discussion instead of bad faith actors.
Lemmy.World and Lemmy. Ml are two different places. Lemmy ML was created as a safehaven for people from subreddits that were banned like ChapoTrapHouse. Lemmy. World is designed to be the general Lemmy Community. Lemmy. Ml was the biggest until the reddit issues but I am pretty sure Lemmy World is after overtaking them. Lemmy.ML is trying to steer traffic here because they know that their community wasn’t going to be palatable to the vast majority of people. There’s a wide variety here so it’s very hard to pinpoint where this place’s userbase stands politically.
Lemmy. ML and Lemmy.world are different places and it’s for the best if we just leave each be and have our own communities in peace.
ohh, does the .ml stand for Marxist-Leninist? I always wondered why they chose th at domain name
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Probably not,
.mlis free (provided by the same registrar as.tk) on a year-by-year basis and was much more popular around the time lemmy started.could also be Markup Language
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Testing, testing, fuck authoritarian regimes, Xinnie the Pooh is a cuck, Putin is a super super gay who likes long big cocks, fuck Trump, fuck Biden, and fuck the crooks in DC. Testing testing.
Duplicate comment RIP
Fuck the CCP.
Testing, testing, fuck authoritarian regimes, Xinnie the Pooh is a cuck, Putin is a super super gay who likes long big cocks, fuck Trump, fuck Biden, and fuck the crooks in DC. Testing testing.
Removed by mod
That works for me. I can’t think of very many the places I’d direct it. All similar to Putin though.
If you check out the instance sidebar, we’re basically running on the same rules as mastodon.world (presumably until such time as we need something more Lemmy-specific)
