Re the TLDR: you can tell I have gotten used to a Reddit-style audience indeed:-). But also I enjoy “unpacking” myself here much more:-D. (e.g., can you tell that I also have switched now in this comment to a keyboard? :-P)

You are very welcome and thank you very much for the thanks!:-)

I put that in emphasis b/c I want to keep coming back to it, by adding some new points relating to it:

(4) There really is a “social” side to this place too. That is not a bug but really truly is a feature. We like it even? At least when it is short and easy to pass over - it provides a short-term value, and probably a longer-term one as well, in keeping communities civil & dare I say welcoming?

Sites featuring blogs and articles also exist, if we want to seek those out. The Fediverse would serve as a great way to collect them together, making them more discoverable, but the primary purpose of the Fediverse seems to me to be a “social media” site, so focusing more on the social than on the exact content - and that I seriously doubt will ever change, so any thinking must keep that foremost in mind, the practicality side.

(5) I actually disagree about the mobile issue - or rather I think a much MORE foundational issue is that Reddit was for-profit. That caused them to enshittify their product, regardless of which means you used to consumed it. But then yes, I do see how the device used further compounded that and even here in the Fediverse is going to affect things moving forward, like the overall UI/UX needing to work for both mobile and desktop, putting constraints on what can / will be implemented compared to what would be most optimal for just the latter alone.

(6) Highly relevant to this discussion, it also seems to me that it is a problem of the class of “finding information”, such as how you would handle your email. There, putting things in folders has its set of pros and cons - needing effort up-front, especially if a message concerns multiple topics, plus as the set of folders itself grows larger the problem meta-escalates (one email account for home, another for work, each with its own set of folders, so now which account, which folder, in which other sub-folder, is the thing I want? again, especially crossing multiple boundaries like a non-work meeting, but with your work friends, but during non-work time - is that “personal” now or…? in any case it may need to go onto your “personal” calendar if you do not have access to your “work” machine at that time, but anyway the division lines are not always so clear-cut). Conversely, leaving all messages in one huge pile has its pros as well - you’d need to design a “query” to find it later anyway, but how often do you really “search” for emails to begin with, compared to simply read them and move on? - although it is much easier to “miss” messages this way. Which style we use probably says more about our emotional preferences than which is “best”:-D.

And relating back to the “social” messages such as emphasized above - those legitimately add information too? They indicate receipt of the message for one, as well as friendliness of the recipient. But is that primarily short-term information, so should those simply be “deleted” after being read, or instead stored along with the rest, especially if they are quick to glance at and pass over while looking for something else? Or should the sender not have even bothered to send them, if they were to be considered a waste of the recipient’s time?

Applying the former thought to the Fediverse, how do we “find” the content that we want to see, other than ofc creating it ourselves?

(A) we can create a new sort algorithm, adjusting the “Feed” to suit our preferences, the benefit here is that it affects everyone across the entire Fediverse, who can elect to use the new algorithm or not. But it would take coding, creating consensus, and could take months to more than a year. Google got its whole start as a company this way even, as did the predecessor to Reddit iirc, so the solutions could range from simple to very very complex.

(B) we subscribe to existing magazines, which takes mere seconds and gets us most of the way there insofar as threads at least though not comments.

Oops, it says this is too long.

don’t ever let them see your tears, it’s how they multiply

One thing I’ve been told in the past is that with public voting records you at least get an idea of if brigading is happening, where it’s coming from etc. Though maybe that’s just a giant list of randomly generated usernames but if it’s coming from a single instance there are at least actions to take from that.

it’s hard to quantify, but i’ve witnessed and defended against direct attacks of the typical kind that are pretty successful on reddit… the structure here is just less useful to them… discussion can carry on around their attempts to dominate a thread, and get the whole thing sort of flushed down a toilet of inane consensus… the traffic is nowhere near as high, so it’s hard to say how it will evolve…

also it seems easier here to shout down trolls, also due to the structural difference… trollish behavior can be countered here pretty effectively with real discussion, where the voting mechanism on reddit makes it difficult…

i should note i use kbin, so my experience is different from a lot of other people

Ignore the people who don’t give the quality you want. Some of us work ridiculous hours and are trying to decompress from everything going on around us. Some of us don’t have the energy for the kind of quality you want. You’re basically suggesting that they don’t contribute at all, and that leads to isolation. They may want to engage with people. They may not have people around them to engage with. Excluding them over “low effort” comments that you can ignore is kind of meh.

Good suggestions. On the one hand you’re right, but on the other hand I don’t want to totally discourage people from posting a silly/low effort comment if that’s all they have to say.

Although it’s true that Lemmy comments are not always substantive, there is an associated problem whereby a lot of posts barely get any comments or discussion at all. So I think we also need to recognize that even a low effort joke can help stimulate further discussion and maybe result in a more substantive comment in the form of a reply.

This. I asked “Why are people mining coal again lately?” on AskLemmy.

It was something I easily could’ve spent time googling, but it was interesting to see peoples different explanations and the discussions that it led to.

And if someone Google’s the same question later, who knows, that thread might show up in the results

Except it can be constant, following you everywhere you go, and affecting you even when you block the person, e.g. they weaponize the “report” function in subs, and some mods simply can’t keep up so end up removing your comments almost automatically.

And that is still fairly low level for Reddit, not even beginning to get deeper e.g. doxing. Sadly, bullying works, and all the more so in a place without effective moderation.:-(

Not that I’ve seen any of that here - it really does seem related to the “culture” of a place, like Discord or Slack or Reddit or… here, where others may call out a bully, or just ignore them entirely but instead provide positive feedback to replace it and reinforce community standards of decency.

As you just did, kudos for being awesome yourself!:-D

Honestly I’d rather have the 10 comment threads than the ones with the Hexbear crowd in them. Those threads are always a train wreck of shit takes, sealioning, and bad faith arguments.

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Without examples its hard to know what your post is about

I think some of them are bots tbh, they sure seem like bots. It’s inevitable that we’re going to see bot action but I think it’s by some people who just want lemmy to seem more active, but that’s just a theory.

Haha right? Same. Thankfully threads like this are pointless because the nice thing about decentralization is that anyone can do it their own way and it doesn’t matter what others think.