I used to downvote fairly often on Reddit as a sign to disagree or to push down really disgusting bigoted comments. And to be honest, it became a habit to just downvote without replying. However, now that I’m on lemmy and not Reddit I’ve been actively trying to not instantly downvote things and instead move on or take the time to reply. Has anyone else been trying to do this?
I’ve literally never upvoted/downvoted anything on Reddit or here, never understood the point of either. I read the thread & either engage or scroll on
…Downvote away 😀
I’ve never much voted at all on Reddit, but here I upvote most things.
up/down voting is simply a way to help comments you think are good, or agree with, become more/less dominant in the thread.
In some cases, comments are useful to explain why - but often that’s just not the case.
I don’t understand this mentality to begin with? Downvoting without context is like cursing at a random person in public and then drive away.
deleted by creator
Sadly
That’s not really a great comparison. Downvoting is a way to say you disagree with someone without getting into an argument. And if I think of my personal experience, most of the posts/comments I would downvote on Reddit are about things that there is no point getting into an argument about.
Downvoting is a way to say you disagree with someone without getting into an argument.
Is that what it’s supposed to mean though? I understood it to mean that the comment either didn’t contribute to the discussion or it was actually detrimental to it.
I regularly used to upvote people that I replied to even if disagreed with them.
Obviously, if they’re being dicks then that’s a downvote.
Yes, that’s what it’s supposed to be for, but with the influx of Redditors that have their own definition of what it’s for, it’s being totally misused.
I think 10 years ago that is what is did actually mean, and it’s what it’s supposed to mean. But in the last 4-5 years there has been a shift as Reddit got more popular and as they changed how upvotes and downvotes actually affect comments.
With so many more people joining the site, the opinions got a lot more diverse and vehement. People hitting the downvote button got a lot more prevalent. This doesn’t mean that upvotes weren’t happening as well(I’ve seen posts that had one of the bottom comments rise all the way to the top after new information comes out or the video hits all).
So, anyways I think you are right and that’s what it was supposed to mean, but it has changed meaning for the most part I think. And I think there has been a lot more assholes on the other site anyways, so it was definitely being used on/by them.
I think it’s a great comparison. You can punish someone without providing a reason, and so the poster just thinks other people are arseholes. You did it just because you can. You might think there’s no point arguing back, but the person who wrote the comment obviously thought it was a good point.
Votes being public has made it possible to learn a bit about how people interact with posts. I’ve always used the downvote sparingly and I think that is how most people operate, downvoting only what doesn’t contribute to discussion and upvoting what I agree with. But it seems a minority downvote very frequently. There are some accounts that downvote the vast majority of posts in certain communities. Sometimes these accounts have zero posts and comments. Which is pretty odd - disagreeing with so much while never sharing your opinion.
I didn’t bother to check who it is because I’m not petty enough, but there’s a guy on my instance who downvotes everything. I think some people are using downvotes to “hide read posts” as voting counts as reading a post.
It’s not a really a mentality per se, it’s just a lot less mental effort to downvote and move on. Especially when you consider all the downvote bots and the fact that downvotes were not public. Downvoting in general was really devalued and people used it to just remove content from their face as opposed to engaging with it. Lemmy feels different in that regard.
I personally found the 5th reply to the same comment thread a little repetitive. Unless there is anything more to add to the conversation a simple upvote/downvote on an already existing thread is probably enough. I don’t think I ever downvoted a post though, just because I sorted by top/hot.
Downvotes are needed for some content but on the other hand they’re public and can cause targeting
I usually downvote not because I disagree but because I think the comment is low effort or written in bad faith.
For any weird, bigoted stuff, lots of downvotes and no replies is hopefully the message an OP needs to receive to get the hint that they should by plying their recruitment attempts elsewhere. Engaging them is probably the worst thing to do.
I’ve had to remember that there’s automatic hiding though, and do that manually.
Definitely agree with that, I very much so still downvote bigoted comments and posts though I think I’ve only encountered two comments like that so far. Lemmy mods and admins are doing a great job.
I switched instances just so I could be on one that had downvotes because I passionately believe downvotes give immediate power to of self moderation to the users. However, I’m very light on downvoting. I only downvotevote stuff like the OP was talking about or if something is technically incorrect and damaging to a thread. But again I’m very light on downvoting, as I was on Reddit before. I usually ignore something that I simply don’t agree with or think is too silly, etc.
I think the issue is that pushing this kind of self moderating also takes a lot of culpability out of the mods hands as well and helps encourage reddit’s typical “my free speech!” trolls. I like the idea of mods having rules that allow them to use discretion to take out the trash and in theory upvotes should still outshine the trash.
That said I do see some things where it’s like this ads nothing to nothing and I do miss the ol’ downvote key to encourage it away. I also used to(well I tried anyway) use it as a means of breaking momentum of those stupid ass posts on reddit that would often fly to the top of a comment thread burying the actual discussion and content towards the bottom.
I was Reading a post earlier tonight where someone shared an anti Covid view point and dropped the whole big Pharma/government groupthink garbage.
Every comment was telling them they would not be accepted here with those views.
I checked a few hours later and the conspiracists comment was gone, but it did have the largest number of downvotes I’ve come across yet at 150ish.
An echo chamber we need not be, but conspiracy garbage we need not at all.
I just miss when conspiracies were fun and not essentially a threat to one’s livelihood.
From everything I’ve seen, conspiracy theories were rarely harmless. They almost always were rooted in antisemitism.
Why do you think I joined the instance I did?
Downvoting is useful for pushing irrelevant/spam comments down but it is definitely overused.
It’s not used for pushing irrelevant or spammy content. It’s used to show you don’t agree and push that content away from sight. At least be honest about that if you support using downvotes.
People act like they are making the thread better in some way by cleaning trash. But that’s not what happens. You are just making sure opinions you don’t agree with are at the bottom of the thread. Nothing noble about that. Feels good, sure.
You’re phrasing it in a way that is actively harmful. It’s like you’re trying to make downvotes worse than they are.
They’re absolutely useful, but not for just opinions you don’t like.
I think we just have different experiences with downvotes. I see them being harmful, yes. Because they are used to disagree, not to flag incorrect content, in subreddits (communities) where opinions are discussed. In technical fact-based subreddits they may work fine, but in discussion-based ones, they are horrible and leads to one opinion at the top always.
There’s a difference between acknowledging people use downvotes incorrectly and encouraging them to use downvotes incorrectly. The first one is a fine discussion. The second is harmful.
You shouldn’t try to make things worse to prove your point.
At least be honest about that if you support using downvotes.
lemmy.one has downvotes disabled.
I have them disabled also on my instance. Beehaw showed the way here and it makes sense to me to not use them. People just want to punish opinions they don’t agree with. The button should be called Punish. :)
Yup, I saw vote manipulation way too much on Reddit. 3-5 down votes on a dissenting opinion right after it’s posted usually tanks even the most well reasoned comment. Accounts like Unidan fly under the radar for so long.
If youre really into that, you should have signed up at Beehaw. They have downvotes disabled.
Personally, Imma keep doing it. Not because Im petty. But if I really disagree with something, I feel like it helps me avoid replying with something stupid or hurtful.
I actually did lol, that was supposed to be my main but since they defederated from lemmy.world I’ve been using this account more. I may switch back once they refederate but for now this is my main.
Yeah such dumb move on their part.
Downvotes really shouldn’t be for comments or submissions that you disagree with, but for anything that does not add to the conversation. Reddit started off with this guideline too, but at some point votes turned into agree/disagree.
People always said the same thing on Reddit too, but there’s a lot of stuff that “adds to a conversation” that needs to be downvoted. Just because something “adds to a conversation” doesn’t mean that the people shouldn’t express that it’s an awful comment or viewpoint by downvoting.
For instance, on a history article about Nazis someone could say “well some were bad, but not all were. Plus the good they did around the world was actually a lot better than people give them credit for like introducing a universal basic income or providing their citizens with jobs and healthcare for all.”
Like… it’s a viewpoint… but by not downvoting that viewpoint you’re basically allowing someone to say Nazis aren’t bad. Which to me is why the downvote button is there in the first place. Good, well thought out comments that add to a conversation should be upvoted, but awful comments should be downvoted too. People just need to be more well intentioned about when they’re downvoting a viewpoint they disagree with.
If that example had a little more substance and better context it would be valid. It’s important to recognize that most Nazis weren’t cartoonishly evil. Some may have even been mostly good people who supported the worst possible politics.
Acknowledging that makes it easier to spot similarities today.
Hey look, a perfect example!
Some may have even been mostly good people who supported the worst possible politics.
If your “support” of the worst possible politics is “only one race is the true master race and the rest don’t deserve to live along side us” then no amount of helping others, doing community service and being “mostly good” makes you a mostly good person. It’s makes you a shit person with a horrendous and incompatible viewpoint of the world. That deserves a downvote. It deserves it because the comment adds something to the conversation, but not the way that it is something we all should support.
Yeah. I think you missed the important bits that allow you to recognize the same behavior in an increasingly fascist world. And to consider what you can and should practically do about it now. Instead you’ll wait for an arch-villain looking guy twirling his mustache that’ll never show up.
It IS the perfect example. At least we agree on that.
I agree. I’d say that expressing a viewpoint that derails the conversation and people already know is wrong definitely does not add to the conversation, and should be downvoted.
do bees be?
“Discussions became binary”. And yet you subscribe to the binary of “hateful vs. non-hateful opinion” as if it’s clearly identifiable.
well, I am fairly sure that, legally speaking, there is a requirement for organizations to identify that by many jurisdictions.
Regardless, there is a difference in that I am not interested in being the judge. I don’t downvote at all.But you can have that gotcha. one point for you!
Hate speech laws in real life are also very ambiguous and rarely stand alone in court without another more easily proven charge.
Upvote to you too anyway, although I’m still guilty of using downvote as a disagree button.
Yeah it wasn’t made for disagreement, it was meant for a crowd control form of moderation. That’s why they had the karma index and allow for subreddits to impose karma restrictions. (I guess there could be an argument about it being a form of social credit system if it were, which let’s be honest it became that anyway, whether or not it was intended to be that way from the beginning)
No downvotes. I use BAMO.
Block and move on.
I’m here for memes and boobs, ain’t nobody got time for dickheads.
Well said!
I intentionally joined an instance that doesn’t allow it. I do it kind of compulsively on other sites but really don’t feel good about it. Plus I always found it hurtful when people did it to me just because I didn’t know something or had a polite disagreement. Downvoting reminds me of the 6 Million Merits episode of Black Mirror (if that’s what it’s called). Now when I try to downvote Lemmy says nope can’t do that and I feel happy and relieved!
Been wondering if Lemmy should have some sort of variation on redditquette, particularly
Vote. If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it.
Which if you weren’t aware was a non binding unofficial rule on reddit
You imply that this is systemic. Well its not. Let me help you move past this:
Strongly Agree: +1
Agree: 0
Neutral: 0
Disagree: 0
Strongly Disagree: -1
If you are having trouble with working through this, and you Strongly Strongly Strongly Disagree then there is a 6th option.
Strongly Strongly Strongly Disagree: +1 562-379-4995
What? I’m already doing this now. I just used to do Slightly Disagree: -1. I’m not really having trouble doing it, I was just noting my own desire to change my habits.
