I just got up from conversation with a couple of older black men, that I said “well I got to go back to work and start cracking the whip.” And it occurred to me then that it was probably a really insensitive stupid thing to say.
Sadly, it hadn’t occurred to me until it’s already said.
You do realize you’re asking for a racist-o-pedia, right?
Me and the boys going to work on the Big Book of Slurs
So, basically twitter…
Unfortunately there isn’t really a full list because that shit changes so often. Previously accepted phrases become slurs and yesterday’s slurs get reclaimed.
And it is locational. Something insensitive in the US might be insensitive here in Oz or over in Europe… Or might not.
That is how idiom works.
Yep. Can be things you wouldn’t even think about too. For example the word ‘spastic’ isn’t offensive in the US, but is deeply offensive in the UK, similar to the word ‘retard’
This is kind of tangential, but I don’t think I ever would have known that “poof” was an anti-gay slur in Britain if I hadn’t played Pokemon White. I wanted to.use that as a nickname and had to look up online why the game was preventing me.
Yesterday
Cursèd Saracens did spoil my day
Give us strength to crush those hordes, I pray
Oh, I believe in Huns to slay
Speaking of stupid and insensitive, I was in my 20s before someone explained to me that to reference “jewing someone down” on price was not a great thing to say. It seems absurd. I’d just never seen it in writing or thought about it–it was an idiom, that’s it. You want to get a better price, so you jew them down. I guess I thought it was a homonym, if anything, but I didn’t really think about it, at all. Big-time facepalm moment when it clicked for me. Likewise for, “I got gypped.”
My family always pronounced it “chewing them down,” so I was surprised to see it written the first time. I was probably in college.
My grandfather, who passed away in the 90s, used to say “cotton pickers” for people that he meant as “jerks”. It took me until the 2010s that he was taking about black people. 🤦♂️
A lot of people post online that they love the phrase “cotton-headed ninny-muggins”.
But once you look at it thought this lens…boys I think this one’s not ok.
Isn’t that a line from “Elf”?
phrases that are stupid
We haven’t invented a storage big enough for that yet
About the others, there are some obvious ones but other than that it mostly depends on context and culture. Some pointed the ricing thing for Linux, but I don’t think anyone in the community, myself included, thought about Asian ppl when calling themselves a ricer; nor I think it’s racist, so again: aside for obvious insults or widely known slurs, it basically falls back to context
I remember in my 20s the phrase “indian giver” coming out of my mouth. I hadn’t used that phrase since I was a kid of 10 years old or so.
I immediately realized that I should never say that shit again. Adult me realized it is a horrible thing to say but as a kid I just thought it meant you gave and asked for it back. I had much more context as an adult.
Most of the time I think before I speak, but not always.
Oh god I went to a public school rear a native reserve, it was always insane to me to see how many times the faculty referred to things as ‘Indian’
Ex. we had an Indian meal day that i don’t think was either east India nor native american inspired
American Indians prefer to be called Indian, not Native American.
Kinda broad statement coneidering some do but some are offended by it.
Of course its entirely incorrect given they aren’t in India, so it seems obvious not to call them indian (shit even some actual east Indians are offended by it, especially cause now they need to be called east indians)
and more anecdotally all indigenous people I’ve met couldn’t careless what theyre called down to calling themselves ‘indjiuns’
@Sethayy the existence of people not offended by something prejudiced always seems to be dragged out as a justification for that prejudice.
If some people being offended isn’t reason enough not to say something, then it stands to reason that some people not being offended isn’t a reason why it’s okay.
If it is, then there are definitely people who are offended.
My wife works on reservations. I haven’t heard of any of the tribes she works with being fine with being called Native American. They have their own government organization called the Bureau of Indian Affairs, it seems pretty clear that they prefer that term.
Yes great! But they don’t live in India :( So it’s pretty hard to call them indians
Not really. If you’re struggling with it it’s a you problem (and probably partially racism to boot). This isn’t a hard concept. Mexicans are Americans, Canadians are Americans, Peruvians are Americans, even though none of them live in the USA. Just because we (white people) decided to call two locations India doesn’t mean that only one group gets that name. That’s idiotic.
This is halarious, youre definitely american aren’t you?
Canadians aren’t in america eh? Absolutely no classification we can think of, perhaps a continent or 2 that could describe let’s say a north and south “america” of some sort?
Id encourage you to try and find another true analogy though, and you’ll see it doesnt exist - cause everywhere else’s name is based on where it is
also I gotta edit to add this, I’d love to see where you perceive racism in my comment, just as a readers exercise
Or Indian sunburns. Or sitting Indian style.
You’re overthinking it. You didn’t say anything insensitive or stupid. It will offend some people, but they are usually looking at how to be a victim and that gives them an opportunity. It’s just words, don’t worry about it so much.
It’s not quite what you’re looking for, but there’s this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
To add to this:
List of lists of pejorative terms for people
It includes lists for men, women, lgbt+, disability, age, ethnicity, religion, location. The severity of the terms is varying and arguably location-dependent.
For example, while I (probably) wouldn’t use the word “wanker” in a formal professional large meeting in my current workplace without it being somehow contextual, almost no Australian or New Zealander in that company would blink an eye if I said it casually at lunch. But when I worked in the education sector I used the personal rule “if I don’t want it written on my gravestone, I shouldn’t say it”, because teachers have subsonic and lightning-fast swearing detection reflexes, even when they’re not at school.
The two that really make me wince are “Indian giver” and the related “Indian summer” and of course calling hooch “firewater” isn’t great either.
I always thought “Indian summer” sounded very poetic, maybe related to the climate of the Indian subcontinent.
But it’s just garden variety American racism?
That’s so disappointing!Does anyone know more about the etymology?
Not so much an etymology, but how it was used in pop culture:
Our local paper used to publish a cartoon and poem every fall. The piece was called Injun Summer, and it was printed every October from 1907-1992.
It’s very much a relic of its era, which is to say “it was weird; really fucking weird.” The image is lovely. The text is an old man telling a young boy a totally made up story. It’s folksy, wistful and nostalgic. It talks about the past and how native spirits (literally ghosts) return to the land each fall. It’s also written in the vernacular of what an old man in 1907 might sound like.
Personally, I don’t think the complaints about racism were what caused them to stop printing it. I think it was the weirdness that just didn’t appeal to anyone under the age of 50 (in 1992!).
The fist link shows the image with text. The second shows how it would have looked in print.
http://www.sewwug.org/images/injun_summer_2.pdf
https://drloihjournal.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-history-of-john-t-mccutcheons-1907.html
Ok I’ve thought about it a bit and I need to know. What’s wrong with Indian summer?
It’s related to the concept of an “Indian giver”: the warm weather seems like a gift, but is taken back.
I have never heard it described that way. It’s the last warm weather of the year before winter. It was something to look forward to.
Could you explain the firewater one?
It’s sort-of an antique trope whose main thrust is implying Native cultures are backward and unworldly because they don’t have distilleries (though, point in fact, some of them did ferment alcohol).
Firewater and other drinking stereotypes were about the myth of Native Americans all being raging alcoholics, which are as racist as saying black people are inherently violent or Jewish people inherently coveting money.
The alcohol abuse rates of Native Americans aligns with poverty issues, just like everyone else.
I honestly had no idea until now that firewater had anything to do with Native Americans. I just thought it was a term for alcohol, and don’t use it myself anyway.
Never heard it that way. It is a calque of a Native American name from the northern plains. I always thought a white person using it was offensive due to negative stereotypes about native Americans and drinking.
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“Seek offence and you shall find it” - The secret mantra of Tumblr users
It’s a tricky one because if someone wants to be offended, they definitely will be. I once knew a guy who, for some reason, found the use of the word “slug” (in any context) intensely offensive. To this day, no-one ever learned why.
I tried to look but the most official one (from University of Washington) is kind of ridiculous. Following for better ideas.
Oof. At work we currently have a project for words deemed insensitive. For the most part I think it’s worthy, but some things are overboard. The project group cast a very wide net, ignoring context and etymology. My biggest disagreement is over “black” and “white”.
Take “black box” and “white box” for types of testing. These are based merely on the properties of light. I have serious doubts about anyone ever having felt excluded by their use. And yet, we’re wasting time coming up with non-standard nomenclature to satisfy this supposed slight. There’s a whole laundry list of words like this.
I’m still mad about git master
Master as in “the master copy”
And they went and broke a bunch of tools and workflows to change it
Yeah, master has a few uses like this. Master bedrooms came about in the 20th century and had nothing to do with slavery. Then there is master in a pupil setting, though that is fairly uncommon in the US anyway. It’s more of a European/UK thing I think.
Again, I have nothing against changing things that are genuinely problematic. I just have a problem with busy work that is being demanded for items that aren’t actually offensive.
where does everyone stand on cretin? IMHO it’s medical use is obsolete afaik, so really it’s just an insult right?
I think it’s medical and insulting use are obsolete lmao
I dunno man, cretin perfectly describes Trump…
My mother-in-law used to call everyone “zipper-heads” until someone pointed out that it’s a slur against Koreans (and a particularly graphic one at that).
In school there was a group of mostly white friends that had a Asian kid in their friends group. His nickname was Nip. I honestly didn’t know his real name as another was never used. It was a few years before I realized the connotation that was there once I started studying history. Not sure if it was a parent or where it came from but most of us at the time had no idea how bad it was. It was just his name and he used it too.
Then I think of my church going father. One of the kindest men I knew. Never had a bad thing to say about anyone unless it was personal thing based on a issue first hand.
Race wasn’t on his mind at all. Being from the westcoast in a remote wilderness area most of the demographic was white and native with very few in those days what were called east Indians and Asians mixed in. More the exception if at all.
He worked for a logging outfit and towards the end of his career he was a logging road grader operator. I recall going down a road that he maintained in a Jeep with him. As I was navigating this rough road the logging trucks pounded constantly he told me to watch out for this large rock that was below the surface. Just the head of the rock was sticking up. He called them " the N word- heads" I was shocked. I knew he wasn’t racist and was friends with the only black church member in town but the word just came out of this mouth as easily as any other word.
I asked him why he called it that, he said that’s just what they were called. He didn’t continue after that day with me as I don’t think he thought about it until our conversation.
In some ways I did equate this to the numerous white kids I knew singing the NWA lyrics in school despite not even seeing a black kid before but this was in the 90s. I can still hear those lyrics as I type this.
Now this isn’t to say kids were not nasty, as they were. There were several unkind things used when talking about the native kids that made up to half the school population and more of that where my family lived.
Back to my grandfather’s time bonds were formed with the local native bands and friends were made but I’m sure the languaged used at times like “Indian giver” wasn’t connected to the real reality.
I do fear as I get older I’m falling into one of these traps with gender and identity words. I think as we get older and comfortable with our understanding of the world we have figured out, some aren’t really willing to figure out more.
Despite interacting and having friends from the older local gay community I’ve not been exposed to anyone that introduces themselves with their name and then their pronouns.
I’m not sure if we can just call everyone “them” or “they” without offending people? Feels like a good starting place but I’ve not learned yet it this is as bad as the N-word?
Here in Australia I am surrounded by people of many different genders, and so far have not caused complaint by using they/them for everyone, regardless of gender, whether cis or trans. Plenty of others do the same, and they tend to be people wearing the rainbow flag, rather than the insensitive.
It is always best to ask and try to remember the pronouns, but often it is not possible at the time, and it is better to err on the side of caution when you don’t know yet what they use. Eg: As a female, I do prefer she/her, but if someone didn’t know that, then I would still prefer they/them to being persistently referred to as he/him. Males likely have a similar dislike of being referred to with the wrong pronouns, but they/them encompasses everyone in common Australian English (eg “whoever left their jumper behind, they need to go pick it up from the office”) so seems the best compromise till a conversation can happen.
It would certainly be more convenient if they/them became a generic pronoun for everyone regardless of gender. But at the moment it’s not nessararily polite to use it that way in all circumstances. There are people that only use gendered pronouns to refer to themselves, to the exclusion of neutral pronouns like they/them. Generally if there’s any uncertainty about someone else’s preferred pronouns you can just ask. If you wanna skirt around it you can introduce yourself including your pronouns which will give others a safe opportunity to do the same. Messing up someones pronouns can be embarrassing but it’s not the same as dropping a slur. (Though it can still be very hurtful to those involved.)
How?
How is it a slur, you mean?
“Used by soldiers during the Korean and Vietnam Wars; multiple hypotheses exist as to the specific origin. One is that if an East Asian person were shot in the middle of the forehead with a machine gun, the head would split as if being unzipped; another, that the appearance of tire tracks on a body having been run over by a military Jeep or that of tank tracks resembled a zipper.”
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/zipperheadJesus fucking Christ, I assumed it was a “hurr durr narrow eyes” racist thing, what you’ve said/linked is way worse
