Yet.
There’s also the fact that there isn’t an algorithm trying to keep you doomscrolling by promoting commercial content.
This is underrated. I actually close Lemmy a lot easier and more quickly than I did reddit, it’s not hooking me with dopamine hits nearly as strongly.
As a result, since I know I’ll probably just scroll for a few minutes at a time, I’m more willing to check in more often and toss a few upvotes and maybe a comment or two around.
I think this is a huge part of it. Occasionally I’ll surf Facebook after checking out the marketplace. Last night I saw tons of posts about that “Try that in a small town” song with tons of people claiming to support it. Just post after post of people saying they don’t see anything racist about it at all, and not a single one pointing out how showing videos of the BLM protests while singing “we take care of our own, try that in a small town” miiiiiiiight just be a little bit racist. Fortunately I usually only click on cat videos and the rare left leaning recommended posts, so I got to see one post with a picture of John Cougar Mellencamp saying something like “I sang about my small town without mentioning violence.” The post had hundreds of comments…all deleted by admins.
Even when you try to avoid the controversy and hateful comments, the system is still designed to keep you doomscrolling. Positivity doesn’t help that…
Yep this is huge. I still scroll on RiF sometimes without being logged in, and I had only ever looked at the subs I was subscribed to until now. I’m shocked by how much infuriating nonsense is being pushed by the site.
Lemmy is so far left leaning because a large part of its existence is due to people being mad at capitalism
And its so tiring to hear about all the time
Edit: and I don’t disagree
Capitalism doesn’t tire!
“I disagree with the bad thing, but I wish the people affected by the bad thing wouldn’t complain about it so much!”
I’m real tired of hearing about Lemmy and Reddit. I just want the other content that I used to consume here. I’m getting pretty tired of hearing how bad Reddit is doing.
It’s like someone coming out of an abusive relationship. Every other sentence is about the awful things they did, how good it is to be away, and did you hear about xyz thing they did.
It’s exhausting.
I agree with it, but I also agree with you
More like, it was developed by socialists who didn’t want to use corporate owned social media sites that promoted beliefs they didn’t agree with. It’s just that what they really wanted was an echo chamber for what they think and they are going to defederate their way to it.
You know people can have strong ideals and still have the humanity to help people who may disagree with them? Not everything is run by political ideology.
more like we wanted out of the colonial capitalist echo chamber so we could hear ourselves think.
nice try though
It can be both. You cannot argue that Lemmy is devoid of echo chambers.
developed by socialists
I thought only capitalism drives innovation?
Strangely enough, many people do things for other reasons than money. :)
Then entire idea of open source wouldn’t exist if people were only motivated by money. As an example.
Name 3.
Altruism, personal fulfillment, drugs
Name 845.
Well, let’s subdivide drugs then and start with the table of contents of PIHKAL and TIHKAL.
👀 eyeballs the Entire Free / Open source software culture
Capitalism drives dependance tho. Not a socialist but capitalism is terrible as well. Lemmy is created by free software and open source software enthusiasts. This means that code is public, its for everyone, and anyone can use it woth or without modification.
Some people think this is communism
Capitalism drives dependance tho.
So much this. Capitalism does not provide innovative solutions. Capitalism is the idea that there is only one, universal solution to any problem: throw money at it. The fundamental objective of capitalism is to invent new and innovative problems to fit that universal solution.
One of the devs has a guide on how to get into communism and which books to read on their GitHub. People think lemmy is communistic because the devs are.
One of the devs
People have very different opinions. The free software dev communities consist of many weird people as well. Many autistic ones, having other mental issues, and some sane people. But in the end all that matters is the software that they create. They are open and visible. Thoose people can’t be corrupt like the proprietary corporations(facebook, google, reddit) as the anyone can see what the software exactly does. If the software does the job without tracking or doing malicious attempts on you like facebook or google, then its really good
I mean the lead dev. Dessaline
A robust and non-ideological non-profit sector is key to any form of healthy capitalist system. That should be an agreeable statement to anyone regardless of if they like or hate capitalism.
There are two main reasons that evangelicals oppose government social services. One: Communism bad (well, “socialism bad” now because they have to poison the well against European democracies now that USSR is gone). Two: If the government helps people, people will be less likely to seek help from evangelical organizations, which eliminates a huge way to market Supply Side Jesus to people. Eating in to evangelicals’ ability to proselytize compellingly is therefore a non-starter.
community property is a feature of socialism.
Community property is also a feature of capitalism (the form of it in the USA).
Police stations, public parks, classified documents, national/state parks and conservation areas are examples.
I think ‘community property’ is a byproduct of having a functional community.
Nah those are socialist features within capitalism and are all under assault from the neolib privateers.
more like a prerequisite
it does, in the fields of exploitation sciences, also known as orthodox micro economics
Freedom and personal liberty drives innovation more than anything else.
That’s not how it started, Lemmy started way back from r/redditalternatives with Ellen Pao fiasco.
I think that the left-right dichotomy is inherently flawed. A lot of what I believe might be considered “right-leaning” or “left-leaning,” but I cannot say that I prescribe to either sort of ideology fully or with any fidelity.
I will always be opposed to any view with a pervasive “moral” authority, and both the so-called left and right are obsessed with their own versions of this. The problem we run into is the false supposition that beliefs can be categorized on a spectrum spanning right to left (or, even more liberally, a spectrum spread across two dimensions). It has been a ridiculous notion from its inception, whenever that might have been.
Building one’s identity (another silly notion, in general—identity itself being a frivolous construct that functions only as a fulcrum for the extortion of social power) upon a supposed spectrum is likewise ridiculous. You can be conservative or liberal, or anything, really. But those beliefs do not exist in a linear or planar dimension. The are so far removed from each other that one cannot fathom sliding incrementally from one to the next.
And to each respective party, “left” and “right,” the other can be demonized as evil, even without full comprehension of the other. It’s all just so damned tribalistic and silly.
Grandpa also doesn’t understand federation
As a grandfather, boomer, white cis male, I suggest you might just be over-generalizing.
“as a black man”
Grandpa actually votes tho
Not really. I mean that “because…” part.
Leftism is inherenty tied to technology, especially new. It’s part of its lifestyle. EVERY new, massive social “site” (or online service) is expected to be left-leaning by default. It may later change its political viewpoint, but in its relative infancy it’s left.
Rightism is more about actions taking place in real-world. As such, the technology isn’t perceived as more than a tool, used for specific purpose only, rather than part of, or the foundation of a lifestyle.
…and of course there’s a plethora of alternative political views, options and convictions that are a mix of either extremes of the spectrum - if you meet a person online, it shouldn’t be surprisied to learn about “pro-life”, but also “anti-Trump” and similarly puzzling approaches to various aspects of life.
tl;dr: it’s not about bots. It’s because Lemmy/Mastodon isn’t popular enough to serve as a tool for right-wing politics.
Agree with this ,RW is having an elongasm on twitter while most of my lefties moved to mastodon
I’d say I’m generally conservative and have been dabbling in alternative social media for a number of years. Some of the biggest Mastodon instances are/were right leaning. Gab.ai started off as a proprietary site and then migrated to Mastodon. Truth.social was always based on Mastodon. I’ve never been active on them because I don’t like echo chambers though. I’ve never really had a desire to have my thoughts reaffirmed by strangers…
I would assume they’re presence isn’t felt in the fediverse because the concept of de-federating is working? Gab is likely cut off by others and truth social never federated with others to begin with. I don’t think Truth ever intended to though, and really just wanted something they didn’t have to build from scratch.
The only Mastodon instance I actually have an account with now is somewhat right leaning but it’s not their emphasis. Even then I’m not too active on it.
Both of those sites have been ostracized (defederated) from the mastodon fediverse. The mastodon fediverse is in general quite left.
Yes, I said that. Well technically I said Gab was. Truth was so forked I don’t believe there was even an option to defederate them. They intended on a walled garden on their own.
From what I gather, Mastodon attracts little attention in conservative circles.
One of main reasons I’ve heard is that “there’s hardly anyone to talk with”. Beats me if it’s default, general conservative opinion…
I mean, they’re there to talk to… If you like jacking each other off… I don’t.
Thanks to Big tech censorship, there are lots of people who are more anti-establishment right on the fediverse. Lots of fairly large instances. Some of them are real nasty pieces of work filled with folks dropping n bombs and swastikas, some of them are filled with some of the sweetest religious right folks you ever met in your life.
I think one of the biggest differences is that you don’t have the Jerry Springer algorithm trying to match up a bunch of black people with a bunch of KKK members. Most far right instances don’t defederate anyone, but many of the far left instances defederate the moment anyone looks at them funny so despite sharing a platform, typically there just isn’t that much engagement between the two groups. In the middle of there are instances that are more than happy to federate with both as long as they aren’t too big of jerks.
Yet despite the clear creation of echo chambers, which I think is inevitable given how freedom of association works so smoothly and easily online, the Fediverse forces them all to “live next to each other”.
It’s not an entirely separate service I need to go on if I want to see what all the Nazi kids are up to these days.
This forced adjacency and inability to create any blocks stronger than defederation (which is pretty weak, really, compared to what other services can do) is going to have overall beneficial effects in the long-run, I think. Though it’ll certainly cause its fair share of headaches too.
I’m actually happy to see the reduction in echo chambers for myself because it does 2 things:
- It reminds me that the people I think I disagree with have good points I need to remember, and
- It reminds me that the people I think I agree with have terrible points I need to remember.
For someone who thinks for themselves, seeing extremism in some cases actually makes you less extreme because you see it and realize you don’t agree with it at all.
Leftism is inherenty tied to technology, especially new.
I don’t know, there has always been a huge libertarian contingent of the tech industry as well. I’m not sure which is bigger. I hope the leftism.
I feel that comment is on the vibe of “liberals are leftists”.
Edit: “that comment” as in the one above the one I’m replying to…
Libertarians are not leftists.
deleted by creator
Communism and libertarianism have nothing to do with each other. What are you even talking about?
deleted by creator
Depends on which libertarian ideology is being expressed. Left libertarians - anarcho-syndicalists libertarian socialists, anarcho-communists are all libertarians. The right wing of anarchism aren’t leftists, the left wing are.
Ayn Rand style, “Don’t tread on me” objectivists, no. But they just co-opted the term. Libertarianism is pretty much anarchism, which is incomoatible with right wing beliefs, no matter what an-caps try and tell you. A right wing social order necessitates hierarchy, which anarchism is diametrically opposed to.
Libertarians promote “natural” hierarchy; the ones based on slavery, inheritance, and other mechanisms of white supremacy. And ultimately, the hierarchy of money which translates to power. To say they don’t believe in hierarchy when they’re the party of the robber baron who believe the bosses have the right to murder striking workers, even child workers, is frankly silly.
It’s not on anarchist ideology really because of this and only appeals to disinfranchised people if they haven’t bothered to do the math.
It’s like you only read two words of my comment. The dickhead rightoidswho call themselves libertarian are NOT libertarian. It is a left wing ideology. You cannot have a society that is both right wing and libertarian. It is impossible.
That is exactly why those fuckheads bring in bullshit like “natural hierarchy”, to jam their square beliefs into the round hole that is a classless ideology.
They took a word that already had a meaning, and tried to invert it.
Yes, it is beyond bonkers to suggest that crypto fascists want to flatten hierarchies. That is why it’s maddeningly stupid for them to call themselves libertarians. Agreeing with them and calling them libertarians is just feeding their lie.
My point was that anarchism is not compatible with capitalism because capital is a form of hierarchy.
And I read your post. Yes, tea party libertarians ultimately lean more big government authoritarian than strict libertarians should.
But libertarians, even ones that aren’t in bed with the GOP, aren’t anarchist because they ultimately use the power of money and privilege to create hierarchy and control others. They just don’t want democracy (i.e. governments) interfering in that power.
That’s not anarchy but feudalism.
While yes, libertarian is originally a leftist term, that’s not what I meant.
I meant the first comment saying most people on new tech are leftists is wrong. Most people who are technophilic are liberals. As in US style Democrat liberals. Which are NOT leftists. At all.
Why on earth would you say most tech heads are liberal?
Why would you say they aren’t ? They all buy in hard into capitalism.
Where are all these leftist techies?
Yeah crypto bros aren’t exactly leftist, neither is the hypercapitalist Silicon Valley crowd, and I’ve encountered plenty of other tech enthusiasts with worrying opinions.
Can someone explain to me why everyone on this site thinks that everything bad about other social media sites is somehow being forced upon the users to enslave them to “the algorithm”? It’s like socialist Qanon.
I don’t know exactly what angle you’re looking to clarify in that regard, but to ELI5 it:
There are two factors: targeted ads and algorithm manipulation.
Mainstream social media sites earn money from ads they deliver. The more people stay on the site and view posts, the more ads they see. The algorithm is designed to promote content that users are likelier to view, not necessarily content that they would like more. In practice, this tends to be content that provides some sort of shock value. That combination of targeted ads with clickbait creates “doomscrolling”.
Longer explanation below:
The value that social media sites give to advertisers is that they know everything about their users. They collect data based on posts and viewing habits to learn things like income, hobbies, location, sexual orientation, political affiliation, etc. When advertisers buy ads to show on social media sites, they get to target these ads at specific people that they are likely to leave the biggest impact on.
But what happens if you want to increase the visibility of your (not ad) content on social media? A lot of companies use social media to bring people to their own sites/channels where they make money. In some cases, they can pay to be promoted, giving them an advantage in the algorithm. In other cases, they can manipulate the algorithm using clickbait (to engage users using the doomscrolling trend) or even using bots to give a false sense of engagement.
In recent major elections/referendums, there were a lot of ads and promoted content intended to sway opinions. People would intentionally be shown content to upset them, increasing doomscrolling and increasing their chances of getting out to vote against these things. However, in many cases, the content that people would see would be half-truths or outright lies. Because they were earning money, social media sites did not care about verifying the content of the ads they were showing.
It’s been proven that Brexit, for example, was decided by voters who were manipulated via targeted ads and clickbait delivered by social media to believe falsehoods that swayed their vote. And in many cases, these lies weren’t just spread by specific political campaigns, but actually by external governmental entities who had a vested interest in the outcome. Namely Russia, who had a lot to gain from a weaker EU.
Lemmy is not immune to doomscrolling and bot manipulation, but it doesn’t have ads and, that we know of, does not sell user data. It’s harder to be targeted here because the only thing people can do is try to game the vote system to make their content more visible (which is sadly easier than it should be). But all you have access to are people subscribed to specific communities or registered on specific instances. It’s harder to target people en masse and you only have a single data point to target, namely people who like [community topic].
Sooooo, there’s a lot of truth to it.
Once a site is big enough that they want to cash in on it, they develop tools and ai and make choices that are designed to keep you on the site longer.
These tools and ai quickly discover that the way to keep you engaged is to keep you enraged. Content that angers you will keep your engagement longer and keep you coming back.
This is well researched and I’ll cite sources if you need it.
So what happens is that the ai, while it isn’t designed explicitly to show right wing content, will end up learning that showing that content accomplished it’s actual goal. It’s original goal being “Keep people on the site longer”
Right wing content fits a nice niche where it engages a lot of people. Donald trump claiming that he lost the election will enraged the right because they believe in his horse shit and that the election was stolen, and the left gets enraged by it because it causes unnecessary violence like Jan 6th. The AI loves that because it’s fairly universally enraging, and engaging most people.
To build upon this, just getting into a petty online argument about nothing keeps users coming back. I enjoy reading the back and forth between two strangers
There is no truth to it. The vast majority of negative interactions and aberations on a social media site is brought about by the users, not by the operators of the site. These tools they have are not as powerful as you think they are. The only reason they have any power at all is because the users give them that power because that is what they want. You don’t have a successful site by manipulating the user base to do what you want them to do, they will just leave. You simply give them what they want and they never leave. “The algorithm” is there to give the user what they want, and they’re actually really bad at doing that.
The users create the content, the background ai decides which content to prioritize and promote to the front page, etc…
Which part of that is wrong?
The fact that the user is the one imputing the data to determine the received content in some way. You’re selecting the content you interact with, not a black box trying to take over the population. They just want you to stay on the site, look at the ads, and never leave. They don’t care about your political allegiance or what movies you like, they will feed you whatever you want.
Agreed!!!
The user selects the content that they interact with, but because content that upsets you is so engaging, the AI will heartily promote it.
look at how engaged you are with these comments! Is it because they make you upset?
How interesting. ;-)
I only really ever comment when I have something to say. This usually is only when I disagree with something.
That’s why my upvote ratio is terrible. I rarely comment when I agree with something someone has said. I bet my ratio would be a lot better if I did.
But that’s just human nature, I think. Some people crave acceptance and validation so they comment agreement and some people crave conflict and challenge, so they comment in disagreement.
Everyone is the hero of their own story, so I think they feel the need to “correct” perceived injustices.
I think your experience is common.
And I think AI exploits this, because it’s useful.
Most smart right wing people (not me obviously), long ago gave up trying to discuss anything important with the left.
It’s not productive, and everyone that I know has just gone to more private chats and channels and don’t even have social media accounts.
You get banned enough times for saying something reasonable, or constantly get called a nazi or something ridiculous and you just stop using those places to talk.
The separation and division has already happened. For anyone hoping to have a discussion with anyone who has different opinions than you do, that train has left the station.
There are bots, lots of them (I’m sure from the left and the right) and that’s it’s own problem. But I doubt we will ever see a place where people can just disagree anymore.
No one seems to have the balls to let these conversations happen on either side.
Honestly, I have started to block political keywords on Mastodon (can’t do this on Lemmy unfortunately), because I am tired of the lack of nuance in online discussions and I am really not that interested in reading the same things over and over again.
People just group each other into two drawers marked “left-wing” and “right-wing” and that’s it. Some go even further and block instances with people they don’t completely agree with. In my opinion this stigmatisation just further and further divides people and will eventually result in less and less respect for each other (or should I say “hate towards each other”). If people would discuss more (without instantly putting words into the other side’s mouth), they might see that they share common ground on some topics, even though they disagree on others.
I am pretty confident that the political believes of most of the general public can’t be categorised into just two drawers. Most people probably have political views that are a mixture of different ideologies and they might not even know if those views are considered “left-wing” or “right-wing”.
Exactly, this is what all of my conservative friends think too.
They are just tired of it all.
I have some left wing view points on things, I voted for Trudeau the first time he ran (I consider this a mistake now), I also have right wing view points on some things.
I’m not at all an activist, but it feels like online everyone is expected to be.
I use common sense, that’s all. I don’t see any of these kind of conversations happening out in the real world, we don’t sit around and argue about this stuff face to face. It only really exists online.
Sorry, but I agree with Chapelle “Twitter is not a real place”
Given rw bots are given free-reign over many political topics on mainstream sites, seems like there no issue with having conversations as long as the conversation is pro-corporate talking points on topics like climate change and the bots are overwhelmingly on the rw side of the issue.
The only area where people are likely to get banned is things like being overtly pro-genocide against groups other than all humans.
Ah yes, the right wings reasonable arguments. Things such as “kids don’t deserve food” “Trans people shouldn’t exist” “LGBT doesn’t deserve the same things” “Slavery was good for the slaves”
If only we had the balls to really discuss this stuff instead of just calling it evil.
Your user note is now ‘right wing shit head’
Except …. None of those things are true
But thanks for proving my point. This is why I (and no one else) should even bother with online public discussions
The only point getting proven is you don’t even know the party you’re supporting. You said nothing I mentioned was the truth but that was just shit from the last few months. You’re wildly off the mark here and it showing big time.
All of those things happened quite recently, you should keep up with the news if you’re gonna comment about this stuff
I don’t think you understand. We’ve checked out.
You guys are kinda on your own. I think we all prefer it that way right now.
Also, not being American is another weird wrinkle in all of this. American politics is seeping into Canadian politics, but we don’t have as many of the same problems around race and inclusion as you do.
But there are still conservatives north of the border who aren’t really caught up in what’s happening in Florida or California.
There is a difference between conservative, or right wing and Republican. You seem to think they are the same thing. Well I’m not a Republican
You’re the one on your own buddy. You can plug your ears down to the third knuckle, doesn’t change your delusions. You cant defend your position beyond a simple “Nu uhhh!” and now you’re running with your tail between your legs, screaming “big meanies!”
That’s fine
Dude there is plenty of racism in Canada.
Have you heard people talk about drunk homeless natives? Call your black coworker “intimidating”? Complain about drivers of any ethnicity? Talk about immigrants and refugees?
Do you interact with humans at all?
There is a lot of native racism, absolutely.
We don’t have the same history as the US does with racism though. If you think the US and Canada’s history of race relations is at all similar, you’re just ignorant about the subject.
Racism exists everywhere, yes. Not that it’s right, but it’s also not the same country to country.
Is japan racist? Yup, same with Sweden and Africa and the Caribbean and the UK and Egypt.
I’ve been to all of these places and interacted with the humans who live there.
But it’s not all the same.
So when Michael Knowles said “Transgenderism must be eradicated” That was not “Trans people shouldn’t exist”? Or when Italy decided to remove lesbian mothers from birth certificates, that is in fact not “LGBT people don’t deserve the same things”?
Or Florida updating history books to illustrate how slaves benefited from their position because they now know the skill of blacksmithing?
for saying something reasonable
“Something reasonable” tends to be sexist, racist, bigoted, homophobic, transphobic, etc. in my observation.
Funny how they offered no examples of these “reasonable” arguments.
Tbf, they’re a self-acclaimed smart person who doesn’t want to get banned. At least they haven’t gotten themselves banned yet, so can’t find fault with that statement yet.
One of the last reddit posts I saw on unpopularopinion was someone self identified as being on the right, and how they were persecuted for their beliefs.
Literally her entire profile was them talking about the pros of meth, and saying some of the most bigoted shit I had heard in a bit, and attacking anyone slightly left of them in comments.
As someone who skews quite far left ideologically but believes that people on both sides have been painted into polarised caricatures in each others’ minds by social media, I wholeheartedly agree.
Fuck your enlightened centrism
The concept of enlightened centrism is nothing but a tool to drive people into extremism. How can you not see that?
Are you sure you replied to the right person? I was condemning the “enlightened” centrism and the idiot I responded to. I think anyone who goes “but both sides” is almost always a blithering idiot.
It’s just very hard to find a compromise or “agree to disagree” when the topic of debate is something like should LGBT people be allowed to exist. The days are long past where the right/left divide was all about economic policy – the divide lies along basic human values at this point. You’re going to be hard pressed to find people who can engage with you calmly when you’re defending a party whose primary concerns right now are stripping away civil rights from their least favorite human beings before all else.
This is something people on the right just find absolutely ridiculous. No one. NO ONE, think LGBT people shouldn’t be allowed to exist.
This is a big part of the problem, another response to my comment said people who think like I do support genocide.
Like this just sounds so hyperbolic and absolutely laughably ridiculous that no one has the patience to put up with it. It’s not a discussion.
You think I want an entire group of people to not exist. You have been taught this from somewhere and it’s not true. But you’ll never realize that.
So what’s the point?
Then explain to the class what you do believe in. Give us 3 bullet points you’d want a candidate to also support.
I’ll start as an example:
- I believe in complete and unequivocal abortion rights for women
- High speed rail should get more funding in the US, and car based transport (where rail could be a realistic replacement) should not be a cheap as it is
- Gerrymandering should be ended, and federal level elections should be taken over by a nonpartisan 50-50 committee to create new maps when local governments continue to submit unacceptable voting maps to intentionally stall so they can keep using the old gerrymandered map for the next elections
I’m not a politician, but I’m voting for the Conservative Party in Canada, I would suggest you look into their platform if you’re interested because I’m a supporter
Would you care to explain the policy changes right wing politicians are making then?
https://www.conservative.ca/pierre-poilievre/
This is who I’m voting for in the next Canadian election. I have a hard time disagreeing with anything Pierre Poilievre is campaigning on.
You can find a lot of him speaking in parliament on YouTube if you’re interested
But there are people recently that have said they should get stuck into asylums.
Does existing not include participating in society?
I don’t think gay or trans people shouldn’t participate in society. That doesn’t make any sense.
There are people that say a lot of crazy shit I don’t agree with, on the left as well.
Is there an argument that trans people need help? I think that’s pretty obvious. Is the help needed for the brain or the body? I think thats where a lot of disagreement comes from.
When I think about it, I can see why someone would think that surgery on a healthy body because the mind thinks it was born in the wrong body could be the wrong thing to do.
I don’t think that’s at all unreasonable. Most mental illnesses are treated by treating the mind.
And if your mind disagrees with the healthy body you were born in, I can see how the mind might be the place to start treatment, and not the body.
However, I also believe in adults being able to make their own decisions. Just as if someone wants to have cosmetic surgery to install horns in their head, or someone wants breast augmentation surgery, go fill your boots.
So if someone wants a surgeon to create a cosmetic neovagina forcthemselves and that would make them happy, go for it.
I also think adults should be able to hook themselves on heroin if they want. No one is there to hold your hand through life, most of all the government
If you’re an adult, make your own decisions and live with the consequences. I’m not here to babysit you.
Just wanted to add to this that the amount of downvotes I’m receiving just by speaking in this discussion just further proves my point.
I’m not welcome here, that’s clear, that’s why you don’t see more people like me online in places like this. But don’t let that fool you, we exist. Just not in the same places that you like to hang out.
And I think everyone likes that just fine
So there’s the rub. Are puberty blockers treatment for the mind or body? If it’s a “body” treatment and therefore the “wrong place to start” should children not have access to this treatment until they are 18? It does reduce morbidity of the condition.
You get shit on for your opinions because they are both uninformed and callous. You are also missing the point of the healthcare by focusing on elective cosmetic surgeries.
The way you talk about this subject is just awful.
I don’t consider cosmetic surgery ‘health care’. Gender reassignment surgery is cosmetic surgery. It’s not like a knee replacement or a quadruple bypass surgery.
Everything I’ve said has been to the adult population and that adults can make their own decisions.
Children cannot make those decisions for themselves. And in those cases, I think they need to be taken on a case by case basis and taken very seriously.
I don’t have much of an opinion on puberty blockers, other than to say that if the body is healthy and normal, I wouldn’t choose to medicate or mess with my child’s natural process of growing up into an adult.
Those are my personal beliefs and they apply to any ‘health care’ my kids would receive. If there is nothing wrong with the body’s process, I don’t see any reason to interfere.
Now if other parents don’t think that way, they can parent their kids however they see fit.
Being a parent is a difficult thing. All parents want what’s best for their kids, and no matter how hard we try to be the best parents we can be, I don’t think any child makes it out of childhood without some for of trauma, unfortunately.
I carry trauma from childhood, I’m sure my children will as well. I’m sure you do, as well as all of your friends.
You can assert that I’m ‘callous, uninformed and awful’ as much as you want, I’m used to much much worse. But I know myself (you don’t), and I know how empathetic I am to everyone’s unique situations.
My personal beliefs don’t really apply to anyone else. I just hope everyone ends up happier tomorrow than they were yesterday, and one size isn’t going to fit all.
That’s why I need to trust you to make the best life decisions for yourself. I’m not equipped to make those decisions for you.
I’m also not going to go out of my way to fix your mistakes though, either. Not because I’m callous, but because I think we are all on our own journey, and there is no safety net out there.
Life is very dangerous, you have the ability to really fuck it up. So take care of yourself, make good decisions, be strong, be independent, and have faith in yourself
The surgery is not only cosmetic, it has several health benefits.
It seems like you are selectively uninformed. You put breast argumentation in the same basket as extreme body mods.
Your choice to deprive your children of medication that would reduce their rate of suicidality is concerning. Would you let your son wear a dress?
No one. NO ONE, think LGBT people shouldn’t be allowed to exist.
What I’ve heard IRL and what I’ve read online in less moderated spaces speaks to the contrary.
Online isn’t a real place, you’ve got bots and trolls and people who just say things to get a reaction.
If you know people IRL that believe lgbt people shouldn’t exist, I guess I feel bad for you and who you associate with. I don’t know anyone at all like that, not even close to that.
Also, I don’t feel like I need to defend the ideas of the most crazy people/trolls you can find online. I’ll defend my own words and beliefs, but I don’t feel the need to defend the most extreme examples of dumb things you’ve read online that someone else posted.
You can relativise things all you want, it’s a fact that online insanity does leak back into the reality. For example see Qanon, or Brenton Tarrant, who used to frequent 4chan and 8chan. Not to mention the more trivial things such as people openly agreeing with Andrew Tate, or becoming fans and voters of Donald Trump due to his online presence, etc.
If you know people IRL that believe lgbt people shouldn’t exist, I guess I feel bad for you and who you associate with.
Did you just spin this into a covert ad hominem? Nice job, but I don’t “associate” with every person whose views I hear espoused IRL.
I don’t know anyone at all like that, not even close to that.
Ok? But why assume that every community and society is exactly like yours? From your other comments I notice you’re from Canada, I hope you’re aware your political culture isn’t typical for the rest of the world, not even for the entire “west”.
I don’t feel the need to defend the most extreme examples of dumb things you’ve read online that someone else posted.
Right, so you didn’t have to claim such people and such extreme positions literally don’t exist - with caps lock, no less. I probably wouldn’t think of replying to you if you didn’t formulate it so categorically.
Yup, pretty much. And most of the times I’ve seen right wing people just come comment the most batshit crazy thing imaginable. This doesn’t mean left wing lunatics don’t exist too.
I dont think that is the case. Left leaning people are just much less accepting of authority, so there are more likely to move of of reddit. right leaning people also tend to be more conservative, so they are more likely to stay on there old platforms.
Come on I don’t think so. Lemmy was a left leaning platform since the beginning.
Well that’s still the same point though. Lemmy and the fediverse are all about rejecting the authority of centralized services/social media.
deleted by creator
I didn’t follow mask mandates because I was required to or told to by any authority. I did it because it was the right thing to do based on the science, and still is (which is why I still mask up in enclosed or busy spaces).
If you’re old enough to remember when seat belt laws started/became more prevalent, you’ll remember the right-leaning folks were all up in arms because “muh freedom to do what I want if it doesn’t hurt anyone else” not realizing (or not caring about) the effect their choices had on their children. While center/left leaning people were just like “I already wear it because it’s the smart thing to do”.
More recent example: smoking bans
I don’t use a mask currently, but if transmission levels of the flu or COVID were notably above average in my city I absolutely would wear one indoors. I think with really busy indoor places I’d just find something else entirely. I don’t know how I was ever okay with level of crowd density.
No, it’s just a matter of who they accept as legitimate “authority”.
If the Dumbass-in-Chief, their ministers, and their news had all told them to wear masks, they absolutely would have, but every single one of their primary authority sources were pulling in different directions and they don’t accept any “liberal” sources as legitimate authority. You can see it at a much smaller scale by looking at Church congregation sizes where some ministries focused on trying to protect their elderly and infirm members and those who didn’t.
Conservatives who had pastors who told them to wear masks were a LOT more likely to do so than ones who were getting mixed messaging.
Remember when their Dumbass-in-chief told them to get vaccinated and they booed him?
My crazy fundie paternal aunt told me the only reason Trump said to get vaccinated was because he was “forced” to say it, and that she does not believe, to this day, he ever got vaccinated or that he even ever got Covid.
We don’t get along. 😂
There have been many right-wing exodus from reddit over the years. All of them have centered around a perceived “free speech” issue, and they have always flocked to the most promising alternatives (e.g. Voat). Obviously Lemmy with its origins was never seen as particularly appealing for that crowd. This time the issue just happened to touch the left-leaning part more.
I’m a right winger here for free speech reasons
Probably also explains why Lemmy is doing well.
Knock on wood, but Lemmy’s grown to the point now that it almost completely replaces Reddit for me. The only reason I still stop by Reddit is for more niche fandoms that haven’t taken off here quite yet.
I would say less “left leaning” and more anti-capitalist / anti fascist. More socialism less Nazis.
At least it’s an ethos.
You’re not wrong, you’re just an asshole. /s
Shut the fuck up Donny!
Algorithms and AI. Rage gets views, so it’s what gets pushed to the top, so it gets even more views, so it gets pushed to the top.
Yeah, Lemmy has address to this by just having an incredibly glitchy algorithm (look at this post with five up votes from four months ago, it deserves to be on the front page). No one can game it because no one understands it.
Nah, it’s probably because most of us left Reddit at some point, either due to banning left-wing subs or due to corporate dickery.
The right-wingers went their way, to places like Voat, Saidit, Gab and Truth Social.
I agree with you that Lemmy may be more left-leaning than other social media platforms due to the lack of bot activity. However, I think it’s also important to consider the type of content that is shared and discussed on Lemmy. As a platform focused on creativity and expression, there may be an inherent bias towards progressive or left-leaning ideas and discussions. Additionally, Lemmy’s community guidelines prioritize kindness and respect, which can create a space where voices from marginalized communities feel safe to share their opinions and experiences. Overall, while bot activity certainly plays a role in shaping the political climate of social media platforms, I believe that Lemmy’s unique culture and values also contribute to its overall political orientation.
That being said, I appreciate your comment and am glad to see thoughtful discussion happening on Lemmy! Let’s keep building a supportive and inclusive online community together.
Thinking like this is why people get surprised when right leaning parties get voted for in elections
Lol right? “Right wing politics only seem popular because of bots”. No, left wing politics only seem popular on social media because old people dont use it, despite making up the majority of many populations, and often times are the only people who actually vote in elections.
Left wing politics are more popular in the real world than they are in real world governments. The thing is that extremely online youth have absolutely no idea of just how far left they are.
Lemmy is left-leaning because the vast majority of its users are Reddit refugees, and Reddit is left-leaning. There is no other reason.
As someone around before the Reddit diaspora, I disagree. It was very left leaning before with a significant population of communists and socialists. The Fediverse dovetails perfectly with the communist dream: not doing things for profit, but instead for the common good.
Since the Reddit influx, I’d say it’s actually less left leaning. Questions to the effect of “why so many goddamn commies” were not common.
I’m a reddit refugee, but the increase in the ‘why so many goddamn commies’ has been noticeable in my short tenure here. Also the astonishment that standard neolib ideological utterances are met with considerable pushback is a feature.
Haven’t come across that yet myself, but I did see lots of mentions of “nazis” to describe anything that’s not left-wing.
Nope. It’s because it was originally made to be a echo chamber for Communists. The devs are open communist
How do you reckon the design influences this? What do you think supposedly enabled that?
What specifically makes it a platform designed to be an echo chamber?
It was originally made because they couldn’t say some stuff on r/communism
https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/cqgztr/fuck_the_white_supremacist_reddit_admins_want_me/
This then later became lemmygrad. Lemmygrad is a echo chamber. That’s what I mean with that it was originally designed to be a echo chamber.
They developed the software, they don’t run all of lemmy. They run one singular instance.
It’s open source, if you actually think this software pushes left echo chamber, you’re a smooth brain.
Pretty sure lemmygrad originally was a dev run instance. I don’t know if it still is
…that’s still just one instance.
And that’s why I said originally
