American failures are being used to prop up Chinese successes. This is particularly true in urbanism discussions. China is by no means perfect and thinking that they are is harmful to progress.
I’m a fan of their life expectancies surpassing the US - though that’s barely an accomplishment, every developed country seems to have beaten America in that regard lol
commiting genocide to Uyghur Muslims? destroying the culture and independence of Hong Kong and disappearing, maiming, killing dissenters? mass pollution and ecological destruction by continuing to build coal power stations? mass surveillance and censorship? governmental anti-lgbt programs?
fuck that, and if you don’t change your mind fuck you too.
The CCP is a very literal authoritarian government with literal concentration and slave labor camps. They “disappear” anyone who tries to publicly contradict them. They ban publications and apps that try to expose them. They have a completely unfettered surveillance system. The mere act of public protest is illegal. They have zero shame in spewing mountains of coal into the atmosphere. Their entire economy is built on the backs of people who are paid pennies per hour. That’s why it costs significantly less to import virtually everything from the opposite side of the planet.
I mean do I really need to go on about what a fucking horrific country (government) this is?
For the record, though, any nation-state that got big did all of that. That is literally what industrialization has more or less always looked like. The US used to run sweatshops and disappear/murder activists of any kind, especially the ones who pushed back against the pennies-an-hour sweatshops. It wasn’t until the 20th century that US courts even started reading the First Amendment to mean the government had an obligation to not fuck you up just for your political beliefs (see this title since that’s a larger historical argument than can fit on Lemmy).
You don’t get social freedom and rights in an industrial society until it hits a very high point of development. This has been true of more or less anywhere.
While we could argue China should have looked for a better way to develop, the United States also helped create an international system in the middle of the 20th century where the only real option was to aggressively industrialize in an even worse way than the US did, or just be subject to outright neocolonialism (and then develop your industry also in a bad way, also likely without rights, and then not have a rounded enough economy to do anything other than be exploited by richer countries)
China’s great sin, in this context, was choosing to use their enormous land-mass, resource base, and population to not just be on the very bottom. If America had wanted to see the world industrialize better and more humanely, they should have tried at literally any point to help the world industrialize better and more humanely.
I don’t know that I justified it, just pointed out a basic historical truth about industrialization. With a shred of historical context it’s trivial to turn the conversation from “ew China evil” to “is it possible to industrialize without this shit?” which is a question anybody should have been asking from the very beginning.
At the end of the day, lambasting China for doing all the things industrializing nations have always done, without offering a concretely better, alternative path for industrialization, and simultaneously demanding they achieve a similar level of development as the West without doing anything the West did to get there, is just pointless. The West imposed a competitive market system based on the preposterous violence of industrial production on the rest of the world, and are now going to be collectively hoisted by our own petards over the next few decades.
I get paid 100000000 Xi bucks every time I remove a post. Obviously Lemmy is the most important social media platform in the world that China needs to control at all costs. The communists have even banned brainrot racism on this subreddit.
Adrian Zenz is the guy. You really should start looking into the sources for more articles you read about China (assuming you read past the headline in the first place). They pretty much all go back to him.
I’m sorry you think I’m a “CCP troll”. I’m not. But I don’t think I’ll convince you, so have a good day.
No no no, clearly you’re suffering under Western propaganda. In China there is zero crime and everyone gets a golden car on their 15th birthday. It’s true and If you disagree you’re a propaganda chicken. (/s)
The organs I don’t know about but the reeducation camps are not exactly secret, both for Uyghurs and their own people. There are many issues the US has but at least the average citizen doesn’t have their government disappearing them for thinking the wrong thoughts.
The US has a ton of problems, I’m not saying it’s a great country to live in necessarily (I wouldn’t move there given the choice). But it’s not a dictatorship where laws are optional for the government.
Maybe freedom doesn’t mean anything to you when you’re not the one being reeducated though.
“Lol” is always such a strong argument. Really shows that your point is to be taken seriously.
If you think that the rule of law in dictatorships is really no worse than that of a democratic country (even one that’s currently in bad shape) I think you’re delusional honestly.
We have a lot of problems with our legal systems but we don’t have gulags where we send political opponents to disappear. We don’t have government edicts telling our journalists what they are allowed to talk about.
When your own country does bad things it’s easy to look at other counties with rise tinted glasses. 國外的月亮比較圓
What’s funny is I can’t tell if you’re talking about younger Americans refusing to hate China or older Americans chanting “China Bad!”
Both tbh
American failures are being used to prop up Chinese successes. This is particularly true in urbanism discussions. China is by no means perfect and thinking that they are is harmful to progress.
Perfection doesn’t exist, but China is on the right track imo
Sure, if you’re a fan of totalitarianism.
I’m a fan of their life expectancies surpassing the US - though that’s barely an accomplishment, every developed country seems to have beaten America in that regard lol
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commiting genocide to Uyghur Muslims? destroying the culture and independence of Hong Kong and disappearing, maiming, killing dissenters? mass pollution and ecological destruction by continuing to build coal power stations? mass surveillance and censorship? governmental anti-lgbt programs?
fuck that, and if you don’t change your mind fuck you too.
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While the Americans are committing a far worse genocide in Palestine, the Uyghurs are definitely being genocided in China.
…are you under the impression that this is the first genocide in the history of the human race?
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The CCP is a very literal authoritarian government with literal concentration and slave labor camps. They “disappear” anyone who tries to publicly contradict them. They ban publications and apps that try to expose them. They have a completely unfettered surveillance system. The mere act of public protest is illegal. They have zero shame in spewing mountains of coal into the atmosphere. Their entire economy is built on the backs of people who are paid pennies per hour. That’s why it costs significantly less to import virtually everything from the opposite side of the planet.
I mean do I really need to go on about what a fucking horrific country (government) this is?
For the record, though, any nation-state that got big did all of that. That is literally what industrialization has more or less always looked like. The US used to run sweatshops and disappear/murder activists of any kind, especially the ones who pushed back against the pennies-an-hour sweatshops. It wasn’t until the 20th century that US courts even started reading the First Amendment to mean the government had an obligation to not fuck you up just for your political beliefs (see this title since that’s a larger historical argument than can fit on Lemmy).
You don’t get social freedom and rights in an industrial society until it hits a very high point of development. This has been true of more or less anywhere.
While we could argue China should have looked for a better way to develop, the United States also helped create an international system in the middle of the 20th century where the only real option was to aggressively industrialize in an even worse way than the US did, or just be subject to outright neocolonialism (and then develop your industry also in a bad way, also likely without rights, and then not have a rounded enough economy to do anything other than be exploited by richer countries)
China’s great sin, in this context, was choosing to use their enormous land-mass, resource base, and population to not just be on the very bottom. If America had wanted to see the world industrialize better and more humanely, they should have tried at literally any point to help the world industrialize better and more humanely.
Really not looking for whataboutisms to justify their atrocities…
I don’t know that I justified it, just pointed out a basic historical truth about industrialization. With a shred of historical context it’s trivial to turn the conversation from “ew China evil” to “is it possible to industrialize without this shit?” which is a question anybody should have been asking from the very beginning.
At the end of the day, lambasting China for doing all the things industrializing nations have always done, without offering a concretely better, alternative path for industrialization, and simultaneously demanding they achieve a similar level of development as the West without doing anything the West did to get there, is just pointless. The West imposed a competitive market system based on the preposterous violence of industrial production on the rest of the world, and are now going to be collectively hoisted by our own petards over the next few decades.
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This is really just common knowledge at this point.
E: looks like the CCP has even infiltrated the mods of this community.
I get paid 100000000 Xi bucks every time I remove a post. Obviously Lemmy is the most important social media platform in the world that China needs to control at all costs. The communists have even banned brainrot racism on this subreddit.
Its actually all sourced from one single guy who has stated it is his mission from God to bring down China.
It’s common knowledge because propaganda is incredibly effective.
LOL what? Which guy is that?
That much becomes more clear to me every day. I didn’t realize there were CCP trolls in Lemmy already.
Adrian Zenz is the guy. You really should start looking into the sources for more articles you read about China (assuming you read past the headline in the first place). They pretty much all go back to him.
I’m sorry you think I’m a “CCP troll”. I’m not. But I don’t think I’ll convince you, so have a good day.
No no no, clearly you’re suffering under Western propaganda. In China there is zero crime and everyone gets a golden car on their 15th birthday. It’s true and If you disagree you’re a propaganda chicken. (/s)
Have we forgot about the fucking Uighur concentration camps? Suddenly there’s no waitlist for organs after these camps start going up? China bad.
Edit: go educate yourself https://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/genocide-of-the-uyghurs-in-western-china/forced-organ-harvesting
300,000 people are on the organ donor wait-list in China at this very moment.
You’re a perfect example of the power of propaganda lol
The organs I don’t know about but the reeducation camps are not exactly secret, both for Uyghurs and their own people. There are many issues the US has but at least the average citizen doesn’t have their government disappearing them for thinking the wrong thoughts.
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The US has a ton of problems, I’m not saying it’s a great country to live in necessarily (I wouldn’t move there given the choice). But it’s not a dictatorship where laws are optional for the government.
Maybe freedom doesn’t mean anything to you when you’re not the one being reeducated though.
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“Lol” is always such a strong argument. Really shows that your point is to be taken seriously.
If you think that the rule of law in dictatorships is really no worse than that of a democratic country (even one that’s currently in bad shape) I think you’re delusional honestly.
We have a lot of problems with our legal systems but we don’t have gulags where we send political opponents to disappear. We don’t have government edicts telling our journalists what they are allowed to talk about.
When your own country does bad things it’s easy to look at other counties with rise tinted glasses. 國外的月亮比較圓
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