Rule of the world. The most violent ape gets to continue his lineage.
Come on, you know that creatures who evolved the capacity for linguistic communication adapted to external forces with more than just greater and greater violence. We’re not whispering cobras. We’re creatures that demand community. The reason we even feel emotions like shame and love is to bond us together as a tribe for greater protection.
The reason we even feel emotions like shame and love is to bond us together as a tribe for greater
protectionviolence.FTFY.
Damn, social structure only does violence? At this point I’m convinced you’re just moralizing your own traumas. Are we heading for anti-natalism?
Nah, anti-natalism would be anti-progress. Evolution is a process that should continue to happen. Even Evolution is violence. Violence is necessary for life. It’s a core part of what allowed us to exist in the first place. It’s one of the fundamental forces of life. The problem is seeing violence as inherently bad. Or humans as inherently special.
Once you start viewing humanity the same way you’d view organisms in a Petri Dish, you’ll have gotten it. Higher order functionality is neat and all, but fundamentally not shattering to our basic goals. It doesn’t overwrite our core reason for being: To spread.
I see! Well, isn’t it also true that even the most effective violent strategies also employ cooperation? Why only highlight the violence - is it to serve a need or narrative?
Maybe…because that’s the focus of the original post…
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
deleted by creator
There is a reason the Geneva Convention (and the Hague protocols before it) prohibit assassination. That reason is that the Glorious Leader and the Wicked Despot have more in common with each other than they do with us peons. Don’t anyone get too excited during our “war” (population reduction, economic stimulus package, domestic troubles distraction). Invest in defense contractors, the elite will keep them fed.
Remember the average dude in China, Iran, Russia, etc is no more interested in dying to aggrandize his rich owners than you are.
Remember the average dude in China, Iran, Russia, etc is no more interested in dying to aggrandize his rich owners than you are.
True, and you also have to remember that many of them have it ingrained in their culture to hate enough to kill gays, other religious people, races, etc.
Despite how much people love to say one culture isn’t better than any other… There absolutely are if you’re looking through a lens of equality. Particularly if you’ve grown up in a more westernized nation where non-perfect progress has been made on those points.
Let’s just hope the west doesn’t continue turning into Yallqaeda and all the lost Fascists suddenly earn a Herman Cain award.
It’s worth pointing out that the two opposing countries / nations / city states in this cartoon would have to have similar governments with similar charters, and similar selection processes for their representatives.
It is lunacy to say things like “Obummer was a dictator!” when he was selected twice by people voting, and then peaceably left the office after his two terms completely in line with the Constitution.
Now can you say the same thing about, for instance, Putin?
This feels dangerously close to some EnlightenedCentrism nonse
Yeah i’ve learned not to trust this kind of simmetrical worldview, even when it makes me feel smart for being above it.
What if instead of taking it as saying all things are symmetrical we take it to mean that we have a tendency to consider outsiders to be “savage” or simply “other” even when the evidence doesn’t support that?
What if instead of aggressively going off on people we consider that they may have valid experiences shaping their worldview, and that their point is not even necessarily opposed to ours anyway?
I think we have the same point here - and there’s no aggression. That’s more of your cyber brain fleshing out details of a person one cannot know but only touches through a singular on-screen opinion. You attributed aggression because it went with the context. See how quickly this shit happens? And people are actually dismissing the meme… it’s happening right in front of us
I’m not sure whether the version of this I saw previously was the original and this post was cropped, or if this post is the original and the other text was added later. But I much prefer the context here:
Ahh see this I can get behind, reminds me of the Soviet anti alcohol poster that’s become a meme too
Good original intent, less good modern applications
The dawn of nationalism was definitely the mistake of the previous age I think. Peoples should be able to self govern autonomously, but not under a guise of “the nation” which inherently forms an out group to be excluded.
I like the Arabic/American way to do it, “You wanna be one of us? Well then you’re already half way there!”
I speak very little Arabic but my teacher has told me that I already know enough to get the long list cousin’s welcome among most L1 speakers lol.
no, you’re just so lost in years of political memes that you can’t understand a simple point anymore. this isn’t about fuckin Russia or fascism or the election. it’s about demonizing and polarizing our equals. and you’ve clearly eaten that fuckin bait in one bite, you’re experiencing so much cognitive disonancia that you can’t even see beyond your own petty politics and just worry that OMG SOMEONE ISNT CALLING THE THING I DONT LIKE A BAD THING ITS BAD BAD BAD CMON thats this entire fucking thread and the entire political landscape around here, no I’m not okay and none of you are in so fucking sick of internet politics and everyone’s fucking unnuanced cliches and worthless calls to arms
Ok Russian bot.
(I’m kidding don’t crucify me) :P
Good God it’s like I can hear how white you are!
That’s a pretty easy opinion to have when that “difference of opinions” isn’t over your right to live and be considered a full human with full and equitable human rights.
This sounds more like you’re lashing out because someone NCed you after getting tired of your peacekeeper complex moving you to try and shut them up whenever they were getting into it with the weird uncle at Thanksgiving because “you’re the reasonable one come on please just take the high road here!”
when that “difference of opinions” isn’t over your right to live
WHERE in this meme does it specify any of that? The point of this meme is that both scenarios are EXACTLY the same.
YOU CHOOSE to say “Well what about when they aren’t the same! I bet you call them the same then too!”
Or these absolute lunatics who are calling me a… Putin supporter? Where the fuck is that coming from?
You all need a SERIOUS DETOX from this political shit. This is no longer about awareness or collective action or “bearing witness to the end” or whatever justifications you make to spend your hours posting this nonsense. This is about detachment from actual human connections where we experience real differences of opinion and find ways to mediate those differences
As for whatever that fantasy is at the end, you’re even farther from the truth than the morons calling me a Putin supporter. but that’s an appropriate example of the kind of DELUSIONS that online politics are forcing you into. someone says ONE FUCKING THING and you suddenly WRITE AN ENTIRE STORY for them to conform to who you believe would hold that one opinion. stop treating people like fucking abstract ideas and shut the fuck up and LISTEN for once. stop dismissing everything and calling everything counteraction!
at the end of the day all I’m talking about is learning to understand others, and we’re getting lost in these discourses. stop just dismissing everything for once and fucking listen
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
It’s still odd seeing people proudly being racist. It will be great when you all go slithering back to your holes.
Ok Putin
What do you mean?
It is quite literally implying “both sides actually same!”
It’s addressing the concept of demonization, a la Israel and Palestine. It’s via these mechanisms that other people are dehumanized.
Not Karen v Karen at the pta meeting.
Aww yes enlightened centralism
Ah yes, the runaway Reddit train of: “Anyone who sees anything in the world as more than plain good vs evil is evil”
Strawman.
Buzzword.
Miss.
Again it’s about any group demonizing another.
The process of generating the “subhuman” other based on misinformation.
It’s not about holding people to their honest record.
Playing the middle and saying “both sides” is completely different than what this image is displaying.
Miss.
Again it is about exactly what I said. “Our glorious leader” is not about other people it is both sideism.
It’s about playing both sideism.
What side are you on in Russia-Ukraine? No question dodging “enlightened centralist”.
If your whole view is just shit reposted on Lemmy about American politics sure.
You’re just exposing your field of vision.
Can you talk without using buzzwords and pop-quizzes on irrelevant shit?
“Glorious leader” sure sounds like a pretty direct reference to the Kim dynasty.
Hmmm it’s almost as if politics and ethics are very nuanced and one answer is never correct in every situation…
One side thinks the answer is “do fascism”, so I think it may be fair to conclude that one of the proposed answers is at least wrong in every situation.
Yes, every right-wing politician is pushing for ‘do fascism’
Probably like they did your mom last night. BOOM GOTCHA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025?wprov=sfla1
Not as hard as right wing simps get did by reality.
Until the third paragraph, it sounded like something you might think was reasonable for lefties to do. Then I got to the bits about cutting regulations to promote fossil fuels and, according to an “anonymous source” (which I frankly don’t trust because it’s from a biased newspaper,) weaponizing the DOJ and national guard against critics.
One faction has a messiah fixation, thumps a Bible they’ve never even read (they just let some pastor tell them what’s in it), obsesses over guns and other peoples’ private (by which I mean sexual) lives and reproductive organs. They’ve been told and so believe that Sodom and Gomorrah was about the sex, but it was about righteousness and hospitality - and these are two things that they themselves lack completely.
There is a real problem, a real danger, because it fits historical patterns we’ve seen before - the so-called “ideas” that they spout with the language that they use - and they end up mindlessly, senselessly bringing EVERYBODY down with them.
They are a menace to all of us. Including themselves, but they don’t see it. And neither does the “both sides” argument, a lazy excuse for not acknowledging that the proverbial emperor has no clothes.
Now tell me something you didn’t learn on Reddit
I think about this whenever I see legislative efforts to “prevent disinformation” XD
I hate disinformation as much as the next guy, but we gotta be careful who we give charte blanche to censor information XD
Nation-states were a bad idea
Alternatives?
I see 2:
-
full hegemonic domination of one nation state where everyone gets their basics met. Star trek style.
-
intense local tribalism where you’re doing a whole lot more defending your land than you are now
I’d go for the second, with pleasure. Better spend my time fighting for hometown than working for a big profit-driven company.
anarchism, i.e. bottom-up democracy and federal structures. Read up on Rojava for example.
That’s still a nation state
That’s just plain wrong
How is a bottom up democracy with federal features not a government? All governments have borders, unless you’re suggesting* a global system
Edit all governments with borders are effectively nation states.
A government is imo not bottom-up by my definition. There is no formal “citizens of Rojava” , they are just members of their communes. There is no federal police force.
Just looked that up. It’s absolutely suffering from the things I mentioned, including military conflict with their neighbors.
It’s a place with borders, that hopes to set internal law , and maintain itself. That’s a nation state. It is defined as a “federated semi direct democracy” and has a legislature “Syrian democratic council”
That’s a new, embattled nation
Or maybe there’s a dozen alternatives that could work better and both of us are staring at this from the bottom of a pro-hierarchy well that we’ve been stuck in ever since one guy convinced another one he should be in charge.
I don’t have a full solution, I just want us to be flexible enough to figure one (or more) out.
“The international ideal unites the human race”
One guy will always convince another of that. If the other guy disagrees, well, time for sticks and stones.
My point is you either go small, and groups self assemble however you want, but you’ll have many neighbors who might not see it your way.
Or you go big, and everyone’s efforts go to one shared goal, and everyone is a equal “citizen”. Ideally with collective shared goals folks are doing ok.
Or you go medium, which is what we have now. Some groups are positioned and prepared to do good stuff, and others are fighting with and nail just to hold it together. There’s gonna be friction with neighbors, like with “small” but the problem is “mediums” got some real big sticks and stones.
There’s no right answer and I obviously didn’t cover everything. But without groups of some kind, people will get picked off. There’s no period of human history that disagrees with me.
People like you make me sad.
Realists?
Provide a single example of anything aside from what I described, in any period of human history that both:
-
did not maintain power through economic or just militaristic dominance of their local region
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did not experience conflict with their neighbors.
They either had cohesive, hegemonic domination within their borders and geographic separation from rivals, or had challenges with bordering nation states.
I personally hope for a star trek future
Is this like a sound scientific theory that has some relevance to modern times? I could list off a myriad of “this thing has never existed in human history” making current times unique and possibly different when looking at cultural nuances. I get what you’re saying totally, but this is a new era of history with the formation of Alliances like NATO and the EU that has really just started in regards to our span of time. Also, we tend to only hear about the “bloody” years of a society. One war can outshine hundreds or thousands of years with prosperity and peace so the whole doom thing seems like fear mongering.
Mainly I’m highlighting that humans are tribal creatures and without some global engagement and unification, nation-states and conflict would always exist
-
-
More moronic both sides shit?
Class: Say the line, Bart!
Bart: This is whataboutism
What I get from this image is that one side will call the other side evil while the other side will do the same
It’s best to look at the actions of a person or group rather than what they state they are doing
well apparently people around here lose their shit if you recognize that judgments aren’t objective facts. so fucking annoying
Maybe we are tired of Putin bootlickers
It is divide and conquer vs. unite and rule. You don’t rule over people about to go at each other.
Whatever this things reeks of both sideism. Which is another way to feel superior without learning.
PURPLE GOOD YELLOW BAD 😤😤
Typical sense of entitlement from a purple, they’re all the same, that primitive purple brain can’t comprehend other light waves exist.
I read “brutish” as “british” on first glance
Which surprisingly does not change the meaning, as one would think it would.
I can’t find any differences
If you ever need to check, this site has up to date information. https://arethebritsatitagain.org
Are the brits a tit again
Same, and I was like well if the shoe fits…
you must acquit
More often than not that has been the case :)
Much less often than not, by a colossal margin. They did have a good run, though.
I mean I would rather be caught dead than be purple
Are there disinformation campaigns from the EU targeting the russian population?
No but englightened centralism means facts don’t matter.
I see this as more anti-nationalism than any kind of centrism.
Shh don’t try to get them to understand, they need their safety blanket of good vs evil because without feeling like they’re one of the good guys they’ll have to confront their own personal failings.
Say it to my face next time. It is a lot more impressive compared to mindreading.
I’ve said plenty “to your face” and all you see me as is another anonymous with a preset of opinions you’re already set on disagreeing with. You don’t give me the benefit of even having a face. But you expect it from others? Next time you see me , ask something about me and get to know me.
Looks cowardly when you dont say it directly to someone. No surprise an englightened centralist would use that method.
Takes the slightest bit of courage to study an issue and stand by a value judgement. Takes no courage to claim to be above it.
I didn’t.
“Hmm here’s a situation I arbitrarily picked out where this message doesn’t apply, therefore the message is useless to all situations. And anyone who says otherwise is supporting the bad guys of my arbitrary situation” - literally all of you
I bet there are, just a matter of scale and effectiveness.
There’s an organization that sneaks usb drives to North Korea. Full of news, shows, articles etc all hand picked by former NK citizens that defected
But is it disinformation?
Spreading information is not the same as spreading lies.
I’m sure it’s not all 100% objective truth. Nobody wants to talk shit about themselves willingly. But yeah just sayin.
I mean, a whole heck of a lot of the US is perfectly willing to talk shit about the US. We just get annoyed if people outside the US that aren’t Nordic start talking shit about the US. The Swiss can shut up, or put up. Same for India.
That being said, you’re probably correct that it isn’t objective, as I seriously doubt that they are sending solely documentaries and AP sources.
Edit: Congratulations to The Swiss for their stance on Ukraine.
You’re so brain rotted you can’t conceive that someone would throw their own country under the bus. Most people in developed societies do, frequently.
Nobody as in world leaders. Not nobody as in individual citizens.
People in the US know things are fucked up, but when was the last time you heard that said in a State of the Union address for example? When it’s on a world stage every country tries to look good.
But is it disinformation?
There’s a great documentary about North Korean expats who were convinced to flee to South Korea based on anti-NK agitprop. Once they arrive in SK, they discover that they’re second class citizens whose only real revenue source is talking shit about NK. This has given birth to one of the most famous NK dissident disinformation agents, Yeomni Park
You seriously believe this? This isn’t a great documentary, it peddles conspiracies theories without attempting to prove any of its claims.
The channel this is posted on is clearly of one opinion and is pushing an agenda.
They are brought to a detention center, for a week, longer if they are showing signs of cult behavior. The video tries really hard to show this to be horrible and makes zero attempts to balance this in anyway. To me this sounds like a deprogramming center but to a tankie it is primed to accept its sinister and therefore will accept it without thinking.
This video actually proves that not everyone can be deprogrammed. Near the end the one of the North Korean’s literally says North Korea is awesome and not a dictatorship because it says so in the constitution. Also, the lack of protesters during the famine are proof that every one believed in the leadership so much that there was no need to protest.
That’s cult mentality. There are people who believe everything they hear and lack critical thinking skills. You might be one of them, but I am not.
To a critical observer this only serves to show how subversive propaganda is and how it can permanently break some people’s minds.
The fact that that exists, shows we have freedoms. Show me the anti-north Korean propaganda that North Koreans can freely access.
Make Purple Great Again!
