I understand why women pick the bear, but I also understand why men are insulted. It’s not that hard to empathetic is it? Maybe I’m wrong.
Even as a dude I’d rather pick the bear over any human. Bears are somewhat predictable humans not so much
Also they can hit me up with some coke
The thing is, they’re not. Even those self proclaimed bear experts who say this eventually get mauled to death by them. Bears are wild animals, they’re inherently a dangerous predator. A random guy could be a predator, but even then he’d be less dangerous than a bear. The chance that he IS a predator however, are much lower. People who chose the bear are simply delusional and just help rage baiters with the social divide.
How dangerous a bear is is pretty much irrelevant to the whole discourse but I want to talk about bears.
Black bears are absolute cowards and aren’t that dangerous unless you are an idiot
Brown bears will fuck you up if you threaten it or if it has cubs but will in most cases not attack.
Polar bears will kill you because they are bored.
My country has the highest amount of bear per person but we only have brown bears and most people have encountered a bear in the forest, it’s not as scary as the idea of getting roofied and rapes. Also getting attacked by a bear is more unlikely even here than getting roofied and raped. You don’t have to worried about a bear attack while you do need to guard your drink.
I note you did not dispute my cocane claim.
There hasn’t been a wild bear sighting in my country for hundreds of years, so my fear of people is way higher than my fear of bears
The question of the bait however isn’t worded in a way that takes your local fauna into consideration. It’s just you, in a forest, with either a random man or a wild bear.
Like I said my frlear levels of people I don’t know male or female and everyone in-between is way higher than my fear levels of a bear.
Consider what you just said about bears.
Now consider that any woman you tell that to is still likely to pick the bear than the strange man who spouts statistics about bear attacks in order to be picked to spend time alone with her in the woods.
This discussion isn’t about statistics. The fact that a woman can tell you directly what she wants, and you can tell her she’s wrong because of xyz, is why it will always and forever be the bear.
is still likely to pick the bear
The hypothetical bear, sure
I love how you went from “all men are rapists” to “you specifically are a rapist because you don’t like to be called a rapist”. It’s literally an ad hominem because you cannot actually provide a rational answer, since it isn’t a rational point of view to be had. I’m not stopping you from cuddling with wild bears, but I highly doubt you’d be willing to put your money where your mouth is, which clearly shows your hypocritical sexist agenda. Otherwise, please give us a rough estimate of the amount of your average personal interactions with men throughout your life and use that number for the amount of wild bears you have to get up close and personal to, to prove that you aren’t just spreading a femcel point of view that’s just spreading further social division.
And if you really want to know me, I don’t even want to have anything to do with anyone, regardless of gender. Humans all fucking suck, because there’s so many people like you who are just shit stains to this world and make it this terrible hell hole that it is. I would want you all to be good and actually decent human beings, but you’ll also tell me that I’m wrong because of xyz. Because no one fucking likes being irrationally judged for things they haven’t done or would never ever do. And until this fact gets through to you, you will actively work on making this world worse.
Consider what you just said about bears.
Now consider that any Evangelical Christian you tell that to is still likely to pick the bear than the strange Muslim who spouts statistics about bear attacks in order to be picked to spend time alone with her in the airport.
This discussion isn’t about statistics. The fact that an Evangelical Christian can tell you directly what she wants, and you can tell her she’s wrong because of xyz, is why it will always and forever be the bear.
The point is that women can also be bigots - including sexists. It’s benevolent misogyny to presume that they’re too weak and naive to do so
Or or or
Wild thought here
Maybe women who pick the bear are the problem, not the men who fail to simp for her shit misandrist takes.
If you say something stupid, and I call you out for saying something stupid, I’m not the problem. You are.
1.2 deaths by black bears a year in the US. 400,000 black bears. So 3.0x10^-6 chance of being murdered by a bear adjusted per capita.
26,000 homicides a year (2021, I think it’s slightly lower now but these were the first I saw whatever) for 330M puts you at 7.9x10^-5 chance of being murdered by a human adjusted per capita.
Sorry, bears win. Plus seeing a bear is cool as hell and seeing another human while hiking is annoying at best.
I’m genuinely curious on what the math works out to, but I think you’d need to account for time spent around each, or a “per encounter” statistic or something.
Otherwise there could be a scenario where the bear encounter is 100% deadly for example, but if most bears are never encountered it’d make them seem safer.
Of course, this scenario is specifically an encounter in the woods, so it’d need to be something like: total encounters between women and bears in the woods vs total encounters with women and men in the woods, and then factor in non-deadly encounters, other forms of assault, etc. That probably has next to no useful data though so good luck…
I mean, yeah I A: have no real fucks to give about this argument. B: Bears are cooler than humans men can get over it. C: used the stats I could get from a quick google, not gonna do an entire scientific study just to tell men to get fucked, as funny as it would be.
You also need to adjust for amount of time spent in bear territory vs human territory, or bear encounters vs attacks to get a more accurate statistic.
But I don’t have to. It’s about perception. Fear is not based in reality. It doesn’t matter what is actually true but what is perceived to be true. People see people being murdered 30x more often by people than by bears per capita. Ignoring per capita, and it’s 23,000x more than bears. It makes plenty of sense to fear humans more than bears based on that alone. Fear is not going to go “oh but actually statistically speaking in order to be afraid I really should do a scientific study to see who in a “alone in the woods at night” scenario is more likely to kill me before I am afraid!” It’s gonna go with the fact that you see and experience humans killing other humans a LOT more than you experience bears killing humans. Also, I’ve conveniently ignored plenty of stats other than literal homicide you have to worry about from men.
Also, again, none of this matters what does is that bears are objectively cooler than humans, the end.
I mostly agree, but you’re still trying to use inaccurate statistics to justify fear
Hm I wonder if any right wing political parties have ever done this to dehumanize outgroups and promote fascism? 🤔
I wonder if anyone who is Muslim, Black, or Jewish has any thoughts on this history of such dehumanization and inaccurate perceptions 🤔
A lot of homicides happen within an inner circle of family & friends. You’re not that close around bears to the point where they are a threat to you. Also, the US is a terrible example for homicide statistics since it is already such an outlier. But I’m sure you know all those facts already and just try to push an agenda here.
Nah man if I wanted to push an agenda I would’ve adjusted the homicide rates to men instead of just humans. Lol. My only agenda is that bears are objectively cooler than humans and you should probably get over it.
I’m certainly not letting extremistic femcels forbid me to speak out against sexism.
Me, a male who enjoys animals, the femcel.
I’m just telling you bears are fucking cool and you’re not gonna fucking die if you look at one. People literally take this so seriously it’s hilarious. Chill out. Maybe don’t be offended by people not being afraid of bears because it’s pretty fucking unlikely you know anyone who has been harmed by one, also they’re cute, also seeing wild animals is part of hiking and very exciting. You don’t need to be the center of every humans attention at all times. You’ll be okay.
This was never meant to be taken that literally. All it ever was supposed to be was a metaphor for violence perpetuated against women by showcasing how those numbers far exceed the numbers for injuries inflicted by a known danger to humans. Anyone seriously discussing the real-world dangers of bear encounters vs men has already entirely lost the plot from the very start.
The ones who entirely lost the plot are those who are supporting this completely moronic claim, as they’re an accomplice to how our societies become more and more divided, which is exactly the whole point of this rage bait & spread through meme formats like this.
Remember when the IRA did literally the same fucking thing with BLM? The only reason this works is because people like you become emotionally irrational, dying on this very hill of utter stupidity, because it makes you think it gives you some sort of moral high ground.
which is exactly the whole point of this rage bait & spread through meme formats like this
Do you truly believe this meme was intentionally crafted and released as part of some coordinated effort with specific intent of stewing division between the sexes?
No one can prove who created this meme - at least as far as I’m aware.
However, after it was created, it certainly has been boosted and magnified by right wing organizations and intelligence operations to cause the working class to turn on itself and dehumanize one another. Which is always what fascism does to distract from oligarchic wealth and societal decay.
This meme is evil. It isn’t funny or cute. It’s intentionally cancerous and we need to stop spreading such hate.
Because it isn’t white men in wealthy suburban communities who will suffer from this. Rather, it will be the black, brown, and migrant men who are already dehumanized and seen as superpredators.
After all, why was it so wrong for the police to murder George Floyd - he was more dangerous than a bear and (white) women were afraid of him. Given that, it seems that those hero cops acted in accordance with our society’s values, doesn’t it? Or, if we reject that notion, then we must also reject “memes” like this that further the dehumanization that leads to his murder
My friend, I genuinely think you are expressing paranoid and delusion behavior. I’m not trying to be funny, I’m not trying to win any arguments, I genuinely believe that is an unhealthy amount of very specific narrative subtext to read into this. Trying to equate this mild trend making almost milquetoast commentary on real violence trends against women with the state-sanction murder by police of George Floyd is borderline unhinged thinking.
youre the reason women pick bear, christ youre pathetic
I know I’m a good person. Meanwhile you on your high horse are here directly insulting and gaslighting me. Really proves a point of who’s the predator & abuser.
snakes are wild animals, they’re inherently a dangerous predator
That’s how you sound. Have you been outside?
If you think a snake is even remotely comparable to a freaking bear then you’re just proving my point of you people being completely delusional.
Not comparable statistic because population differences and the general circumstances. People get bitten by snakes not because snakes hunt people, but because people tend to stumble upon snakes without noticing them. A hungry bear is able to sniff, track and actively hunt you. You cannot even outrun them. You cannot climb up a tree to protect yourself from them either.
Yeah I probably would too. I mean, “Man is the real monster!” is an old trope for a reason.
What’s troubling is I wouldn’t necessarily feel the same about a random (unarmed) woman in the forest and I suppose that’s the root of the feels here.
But that probably has something to do with my biases/preconceived ideas of gender as well if I’m being honest with myself. Yikes this bear thing is deeper than it seems at first lol.
I would feel just as nervous but I do admit my history plays I big part of that
Right, that’s that gender bias I was referring to. Like not all guys are big or tough and not all women are small or meek.
I have been in an abusive relationship and did not fully grasp the extent of the abuse until I was fully out. It’s insidious stuff and can affect anyone.
If I was in the middle of a large and dense forest and saw a random woman, I’d assume she was either a witch or it was a trap
my biases/preconceived ideas of gender
Nope, it’s just cold hard facts that most violent humans are mostly male
That’s because even a weak man can still easily overpower a woman. A single woman is not nearly as big a threat to my physical well-being like a man would be to a woman. She would need some kind of weapon or suprise attack or some kind of thoughtful planning to get the better of me while a man can just have a change of mood and boom – woman is in trouble.
Wow, that’s… really sexist against both men and women. I hope you don’t really think that any man can suddenly have a mood change and then overpower any woman.
That’s disrespectful both to the man’s humanity and the woman’s strength
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8477683/
Is science sexist?
8 (of each gender) is not a reasonable sample size.
That’s completely fair. How about 500+?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17186303/
The next one is only ~460.
or she can just shove a knife in your neck while you are asleep.
Why are people downvoting you? This is basic stuff.
She would need some kind of weapon
Fortunately it’s not like we live in a country where there are more guns than people
Because if that were the case then it wouldn’t make sense to only fear certain people
Fortunately it’s not like we live in a country where there are more guns than people
You might, but we don’t.
American is the norm here. Not everyone is American. But most are.
Weird that you take offense to that but don’t take offense to dehumanizing 50% of humanity
Recognizing that people have different experiences than you, something to appear to struggle with, is not dehumanizing 50% of humanity.
I would pick a bear over a random human because the bear will ignore me and the human will want to have a conversation or something
Being alone with humans on a forest happens all the time. Hiking is a thing. And while I do grant you that rarely fucked up people do fucked up shit, most of the time absolutely nothing happens. At most there’s some nodding.
Hiking is a thing I do ir all the time away from people I don’t know.
I’m not insulted, I’m angry at my fellow men for being such consistent shitheads that it’s true.
We have enough statistics to know that it isn’t. It’s just that assholes always stand out among others, and the pool of good people is generally lower because when people try to date they will fish in a pond full of people who got rejected for obvious reasons, while all the good fish are already on a platter. Or something like this, I got lost in the analogy.
Directions unclear: I now have a fishhook stuck in my mouth.
hey, at least you didn’t give yourself a prince albert
It’s not true it’s just a way people argue in bad faith. If you are worse than a bear you are a threat to be managed and it’s a motive to exclude you from society.
motive to exclude you from society.
Except society doesn’t do that.
Source: almost every woman you know has been assaulted. Almost none of their assaulters are in jail.
I’ve spent three days in jail because I broke up with my ex and she went to the police and told them I hit her.
A person who bragged about barging into women’s change rooms and “grabbing them by the pussy” was elected president.
With a shit ton of Christian/conservative women supporting him
It’s important to remember that misogyny and “the patriarchy” isn’t men vs women, it is men and women vs women. This is not about opposing sides it’s about unlearning harming behavior and rhetoric.
That sucks. I hope you never have to deal with that again.
Of the fifty guys i know well, none have had that happen. Of the fifty girls I know well, there’s 49 who have been molested. (Fake numbers because I’m not going to bother counting, but it’s pretty much right)
If I knew you better, I could add you to the pile of stories.
I would agree that most men need to be excluded from society
Yes, let the hate flow through you.
If you’re a man and you’re not horrified at the behavior of men then you haven’t talked to enough women.
A statement like, “most women need to be excluded from society,” would be grossly misogynistic.
When you say the same thing about men, it doesn’t make me think you’re an especially enlightened person, I’m sorry.
I think the Patriarchy is the problem and participating in endlessly pitting genders against each other doesn’t help.
If you’re going to blame some vague notion like “the Patriarchy” for the behavior of men it doesn’t make me think you’re an especially enlightened person.
Actually I think nobody should ever interact and we should all just stay isolated doomscrolling on tiktok
Who’d you go about that? How’d you choose?
Show them the original post. If they go “Yup” then they get to stay. If they feel the need to write a NOTALLMEN rant they get shown the door.
So you only want men that are OK with being insulted in the face? That’s a pretty small margin you got there.
How is it an insult? Newsflash, you’re not “all men” so you have the power to set yourself apart from the ones who are worse than bears. Men who get worked up about this stuff just need to shift their perspective. I know, I used to be one.
You can leave.
Lack of empathy is why women prefer the bear
This reads two different ways, I agree with both
No it doesn’t
(Mens/Womens) Lack of empathy is why women prefer the bear.
It reads as both due to the lack of specificity
Women lacking empathy is why men rape and murder women?
No, they’re saying that lack of empathy is why women prefer the bear. #ReadingComprehension
Women lacking empathy is why they think the average man is a rapist/killer.
Damn man, you accidentally said something really elegant, take the W
I imagine, a lot of the controversy also comes from how people imagine the situation, e.g.:
- Is the person a stranger or an acquaintance?
- Are you “stuck with them”, in the sense that your car broke down, or in the sense that they’re actively hunting you?
Also if they’re white and domestically born, or are they black and foreign born.
Which is what this question is actually about - generating support for xenophobic and anti black policies
What are you talking about? I’ve never seen a version of this prompt that brings race into it at all.
Race is already part of it. When you dehumanize men you make it easier for cops to kill black men, and for Fox News to scare monger about men in migrant caravans, and for Israel to murder male children and claim they are Hamas terrorists.
Men are not weapons or superpredators. They are human beings. And this dehumanizing rhetoric furthers the goals of conservative and fascist actors - and will disproportionately harm men of color and immigrant men
I also understand why men are insulted.
It is literally the rage they express when rejected that is WHY we would be more scared to run in to one in the woods than we would a bear.
The fact that they’re getting “insulted” at all, derailing the entire conversation and making it about them and how they are really the victims, is more proof that they don’t give a shit about the actual experiences of violence and abuse that we are subjected to by them, only about their own egos.
Literally all they have to do is fucking listen, they are not the ones being harmed in any way shape or form (the reputation of men is already in the shit and it won’t improve unless they work to improve it amongst themselves, but if anything, their reactions are only making it worse), and them being able to frame and prioritise themselves as the ones being being harmed (by ignoring or minimising the legitimate fears and traumatic experiences of millions of women) is just another of many demonstrations of just how privileged they are.
You’re wrong.
You can’t make a statement about a group of people then act surprised when they think it’s about them and want to respond to it.
I feel that women are too emotional to work in businesses because of stories I heard and having emotional women in my life… You’re happy to say that’s a valid sharing of lived experience and any woman that’d disagree is only proving the point?
Of course I don’t belive that, what I do believe is that we’re all people with complex situations who all play into socially constructed roles where we both police and challenge cultural ideals.
Of course women often play onto toxic masculine behavior and reinforce cultural divisions, of course women often cause trauma which causes emotional destabilizing, of course women shape society for better and worse. Women are people in society, pretending they aren’t doesn’t make sense especially from a feminist perspective.
You need to take a breath ma’am.
this man just did casual misogyny and I would bet money that he is also the type of man who would moan about “misandry”
I’m not the one hyperventilating all over the thread.
Is calling someone ma’am misogynistic now?
I’m sorry you’re being downvoted. Anyone who disagrees with your comment either didn’t read it or refused to understand it. I guess, for the purposes of this thread, Lemmy being predominantly male is outweighing it being predominantly leftist.
I read it all and understood it, I just disagree.
This is spot on. The men arguing against this know deep down they are the type women are afraid of. And instead of dealing with that and trying to change themselves, they react badly and cement it instead.
You’re making alot of assumptions about the people disagreeing. My co-parent has been talking about this bear tiktok since it first showed up, how disappointed she has been with friends saying they would pick a bear, how harmful the discussion revolving around it is to young men, how 4th wave feminism leans more to reactionary politics instead of building towards material change. She is a socialist political organizer and every single woman in her party is pretty demoralized by this whole thing as it says alot about the publics political consciousness. If
half the populationmore than half the population judging by the men in this thread agreeing to pick the bear, see strangers as a dangerous other, where does that leave us to join together to make meaningful change in society?Having lemmy be my only form of social media this is my first time encountering the bear discussion and I completely understand her frustration now.
Yeah i asked my very feminist gf and she laughed assuming it was a Jordan Peterson gotcha, like ‘yeah obviously no one picks the bear but that doesn’t remove centuries of systemic gender inequality…’ then ten minutes later she was saying ‘oh God, what is wrong with people? Why are they like this?!’
Then I got a very enjoyable hour long rant about performative feminism as a way of avoiding engaging with real issues that require personal effort and self-reflection. That liberal feminism has become a way of reverting to the status quo, and that thought terminating cliches are so popular because people don’t want a better world if it comes with responsibilities, and, well then we did get sidetracked laughing at guys who went wild and made it clear that you really don’t want to be stuck in a forest with them if not just because of the whining.
Also we went down a rabbit hole of psycho women that you’re probably better off picking the bear than - describing their six different guns and shoot first policy, or one saying she doesn’t slow down if she sees people crossing the road, even on a crossing, because it could be a trap. People are all sorta of crazy.
Honestly this is one of those times I’d love to live in a multiverse so I can go see how slight variations in this question change responses, like if it’d been human or bear, black man or bear, etc… I think the performative answers and responses would be very different.
also I want to know mountain lion or bear, people seriously underestimate mountain lions, also bear or adverse weather conditions, bear or having to drunk contaminated water because you didn’t bring enough, bear or not having navigation tools and knowledge how to use them… these are the real killers. Would you rather have a twisted ankle in the woods with a bear or with a man? There are so many fascinating ways to view and change the question, it could become the internets next trolly problem.
I’d rather be stuck with a bear than with a woman that thinks like you.
This is just as stupid as the woman picking the bear.
I’d rather be alone than with a misandrist, but I’d rather be with a misandrist than a bear.
I don’t think you’ll have to worry about being stuck with a woman.
You need to calm down
There’s the stereotypical dismissal
Replying to counter the chuds and say you’re absolutely right, but that I don’t know a way to get this through other men’s thick skulls.
Here’s my bit. Women are afraid of being fucking raped. Men are afraid of being vaguely referred to as a possible rapist.
One of them has a significantly more important fear to worry about. I don’t blame them for taking precautions. Men need to understand that simple fact and then get over themselves.
We can bitch and moan about how women are afraid of us but at the end of the day if your understanding of that isn’t anger at the men who causes it but rather the women who are defending themselves from a 1 in 6 statistic, I got no empathy for you.
The men who are insulted are making the statement about them. They are too small-minded to consider that the analogy is about how women feel in our world today, not about picking on men. You watch movies and smugly pick out plot holes, while the symbolism and meaning fly miles over your head. We don’t need to know bear attack statistics to wonder why women are choosing the bear.
If you feel attacked by the bear talk, you either lack empathy, or are the strange man in the woods. Either way I don’t need you repping my gender thanks.
If the bear didn’t matter it wouldn’t be in the question. You’re not saying “men can be dangerous”. You’re saying “the average man is specifically scarier than a bear” which is gross and insulting and a terrible, toxic mindset.
The average man isn’t going to rape me. The average bear also would rather leave me alone than maul me. But I have been sexually assaulted by men. I’ve never been mauled by a bear. I think it’s understandable one of those fears is a lot more real to me than the other.
You’re not talking to people who just decided to fear men for no reason. You’re talking to trauma victims and their family and friends. Traumas cause irrational fears. Getting upset that a trauma victim is afraid of reliving their trauma just straight up lacks any kind of empathy.Great. That’s an explanation, not an excuse. What you’re saying is that a lot of women need a lot of therapy because they’re letting their traumas dictate their actions.
Getting upset that a trauma victim is afraid of reliving their trauma just straight up lacks any kind of empathy.
Empathy went out the window when women decided to call bears less dangerous than men. That’s not an empathetic statement. That’s a bullshit statement. Sure, driven by trauma and an understandable irrational reaction, but bullshit all the same.
Therapy isn’t a cure all for trauma. And trauma that is easily relived is not trauma that is easily gotten over. Also, obviously they’re letting trauma dictate their actions. That’s kinda how trauma works. If you behave completely the same before and after your trauma then by definition you weren’t traumatized.
And the point of the statement isn’t that bears are literally less dangerous than men. It’s to show how real and intense the fear is. Not to say “men are more dangerous than bears,” but “women feel more threatened by men than bears,” which is not even close to the same thing. It’s a simple attempt to help men understand how we feel and make it clear why we need the boundaries we do. That is inherently an empathetic statement. You being offended by it doesn’t make it an insult.
Let me tell you, I happen to have also been the victim of other women, and fear them just as much, but mysteriously nobody pops up to quote statistics or tell me I’m the real problem here when I express that fear, especially not other women. I’ve never had a woman get offended by me not wanting to be in a room alone with her.And the point of the statement isn’t that bears are literally less dangerous than men. It’s to show how
Nah fuck that. If I say “all women are bitches” but what I really mean is that some women have an unfounded sense of entitlement, that’s still a completely unacceptable thing to say.
Nobody said “men are more dangerous than bears.” You made that up in your head to be offended about. They said “I’d rather be alone in the woods with a bear than a man,” and I explained to you how that’s a very different thing. If you’re going to continue to be intentionally obtuse and ignore that I’m not interested in explaining again.
They shouldn’t be insulted. That’s a defensive reaction. Men will know if women’s fear of them is justified, even if they don’t admit it to themselves. For those trying to be good people, there’s a lot they can do to ensure women feel safe around them she to change the rape culture that can be so pervasive.
Arguing against this is just solidifying that men won’t listen and shouldn’t be trusted.
Why would you be insulted over this? I really don’t get that.
I reckon you like being generalized then?
I see you like playing the victim. Hyperbole can be used to highlight an issue. And that’s what I see the “I’d rather meet a bear in the woods” statement as. It’s not to be taken at face value, but rather to highlight a serious issue. If you get butthurt over something like that, you might consider that you are part of the problem. I am a man and I find it ridiculous to feel insulted over this. Of course most men don’t harm women at every opportunity. But there’s enough of this kind of man for many women to feel unsafe in many situations. Why can’t that be addressed without everybody going up in arms?
Black people are criminals and thugs. I’d rather be with a deadly wild animal than be alone with a Black person.
- same idea, but with a different group of people. See how it’s insulting now?
“Why would a man who is black/Muslim/immigrant be insulted over women claiming they would rather be with a dangerous wild animal than with him? How could that have any national policy implications?”
But it’s not just men of colour who are insulted. Stop trying to make this about race.
It is not only men of color and immigrant men who are insulted, but they are the ones who will disproportionately suffer real life consequences from dehumanizing rhetoric such as this
The problem is for those of us who go out of our way to make women feel more comfortable and safe in male dominated environments, hearing women treat you with the same disdain as a sex pest just makes you stop giving a shit.
Which again, I’m sure has happened with other “women when x occurs” memes as well.
Overall very eye opening. I’ll hold my own doors and stop moderating conversations I guess. Just keeping to my own business.
This entire issue is clearly just another culture war wedge being pushed by right wing think tanks except the target audience absolutely ate this one up as well as the victims.
Bro, honestly, you shouldn’t let a few people arguing about a meme online stop you from respecting the women who are actually in your life.
Door holding for the people behind you is respectful no matter if they’re a man or a woman. I think most people hold the door if they’re paying attention.
But stopping a conversation from going off the rails in a sexist/derogatory manner? Bruh you could be the difference in one woman’s life from her feeling the full relatability to this meme.
A thousand good experiences won’t outweigh one bad one, and this meme / discourse proves it. A woman can interact with a thousand good men, and all it takes is one fucking rapist and now all men are evil, all men are untrustworthy, all men are literally less dangerous than a wild rabid animal. There’s no point.
Bro are you doing these things to actually make women comfortable and safe around you, or are you doing them so that women treat you nicely? The former is feminist, and the latter is disguised chivalry where women still owe you things for treating them like people. Withholding your support of women unless they tell you what a
big strong mangood ally you are is not a way to a more equal future, and you can apply this to virtually any minority rights movement.And if you think women being wary of unknown men is a personal critique, I don’t know what to tell you except that it doesn’t reflect well on you. But it seems like there’s a lot of folks here who missed the point hard and are stepping in it, so you’re in company at least.
“some women made me feel bad, guess it’s time to be a misogynist now :c”
The problem is for those of us who go out of our way to make women feel more comfortable and safe in male dominated environments, hearing women treat you with the same disdain as a sex pest just makes you stop giving a shit.
You’re not supposed to be doing it because it gets you good will, changes people’s minds, or changes people’s minds about the behaviors of men generally. With the prevalence of SA, the behavior of certain men, and cultural norms, that shit will probably only occur with both large scale social and socioeconomic change, and probably also with therapy.
No, the reason you’re supposed to be doing it, is because it’s a good thing to do. Anything else is a knock on effect that is honestly lucky if it occurs.
You should “go out of your way” to be a good person, not because of what random people will say about the 50% of the population you happen to fall into.
True, but it still sucks when people blanket insult your gender. It’s reasonable to be angry, I think.
Nah, I don’t really like being one on one with a woman at work because I might do or say something they see as “creepy” and then they’ll tell everyone I’m a creep. I agree that there are quite a few men who are thirsty as hell, but, not everyone is interested in you, don’t flatter yourself.
I understand why they’re insulted, but an explanation doesn’t really make it any more rational
Men are allowed emotions. Emotions aren’t always rational
That’s literally what I said
Apologies, I thought you were dismissing men’s emotions based on those emotions being irrational
I’m a dude and an avid hiker in the PNW, I’ve also had encounters with over a dozen bears over the last 5 years.
I’d prefer to encounter a bear when by myself in the woods.
Bears are predictable.
Yep… Dude here who 100% would pick the bear and pick the bear for the women that are close to me in my life. The vast majority of bears just want to be left the fuck alone.
I’m a bear? :O
YES BB
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The problem is that the argument isn’t about the bear, it’s about emotions.
The dudes trying to defend themselves feel personally attacked, because telling someone that the average woman thinks they’re more dangerous than a bear feels both unfair and discriminatory.
The people on bear side, encounter enough men that they feel like the average man is more likely to harm them compared to bear.
The scenario is so unlikely to occur that any factual arguments are impossible to prove either way. And the why the question is structured (either accidentally or otherwise) is inflammatory and divisive.
I’m sure everyone can agree that women have to deal with shitty predatory men way too often. And that’s the thought that the question is meant to provoke.
People defending most men aren’t automatically predators and stalkers, please have a little empathy for them, and hopefully they’ll have a little empathy for you
The thing is, it’s a hyperbole going out of control.
Many women hear stories of assault and rape and whatever, and many then face a male, or even several, who really act in a threatening way, and this confirms it even further, and before you know it, many women start to believe that the average male is a hungry violent rapist who’s after them.
You know what happens when you see a bear in the forest and the bear sees you? Depending on circumstances and your behavior, the bear either walks away or jumps at you.
And when there’s a man?
You can ask for directions and receive them, or be guided to wherever you wanna go, or - in some truly slim chance - actually get attacked in any way (most likely if the person is insane)
Men are people, with absolute majority of them being completely normal and respectful human beings with literally 0 intent to hurt you.
People who raise awareness about rapists, abusers, murderers or whatnot, are doing the good thing
People who are feeding into the culture of fear of men are doing society a disservice (and potentially even radicalize some of the actually bad men).
(Also, women can be rapists and murderers and abusers, especially domestic abusers - it’s not a male prerogative, even if it is somewhat more common among males)
Um, trigger warning I guess.
As an autist who has encountered bullying throughout my life, men have generally been kinder to me than women. Women seems to “sniff” out my otherness and sideline me for it. Men seem to take it easy on me.
So I think the argument is unfairly gendered. I’ve encountered enough women who’re just as malicious and damaging as the men bear-choosing people are avoiding. A mean woman would leave me to die in the forest while she fends for herself. In middle and high school, I was only ever physically threatened by a girl bullies. So idk, I am biased by my trauma I guess.
I thought this whole thing was bait until a streamer recently told a personal anecdote: he recently went to a wedding, and at some point, he realized that all the women kept the drinks in their hands, for the whole time, until they were done with them. After asking about it, he was told that it was standard safety to avoid getting roofied. At that point I realized I had seriously underestimated the chances of running across a psycho capable of gifting you some precious trauma for most people.
Guys… This is not a complicated discussion. I’m a trans woman. I’ve been the man. And now I’ve been the woman. I’m telling you without question I’m picking the fucking bear. Men are scary motherfuckers. A sizeable number of you are cruel, calculating, and downright uncaring. If you’re debating women about why they’d pick a potentially dangerous animal to be alone with in the woods instead of you, you have entirely missed the point.
Go talk to every woman you know in your social circles and in your family, and ask them if they have been assaulted or sexually assaulted by men. The number of them that says yes to that question is going to be depressing. Some of them might even confide in you that they’ve been raped. My own sister didn’t tell me until I asked her why she was so upset with my brother one time. She had recently been raped by a boyfriend and when men got angry around her she’d flip out. Those acts, when inflicted on you, poison your default view of your fellow man. If you can’t imagine a man being more dangerous than a bear, then you’ve never had to.
A bear can’t break my trust. A bear can’t gaslight me into thinking all the shitty things he does are because he loves me. And if I told someone I got attacked by a bear, at least they’d believe me. They wouldn’t need to bring out a bear assault kit to prove it.
Jfc, they’re still going… 🤯🤦♀️
As this post surpasses 1000 replies (the most I’ve ever seen on any post on the fedi), I think it’s worth mentioning Lewis’s law which is being proven here over and over and over and over and over again:
The comments on any article about feminism justify the existence of feminismThey just can’t fucking help themselves…
I know a few bears that you definitely want with you if you are lost in the woods.
Of course I know the bear, he’s me
Hi.
“Either you confess to being a monster or your denial is evidence you’re a monster”
Quite the bind
Mean world syndrome is a real thing that you should look into tbh. True crimes shows have created a strong culture of fear amongst people. If you are honestly picking a random fucking bear over a random guy then that’s just saying something incredibly sad about the world.
I get the point this makes about women fearing assault but honestly this outlook is incredibly toxic.
I love this trend, because anybody who provides a serious answer whatsoever has already fallen for its trap. It’s such an absolutely absurd scenario that’s just specific enough to be divisive, and just vague enough that you can fill in the gaps with any preconceived notions of your own. It’s impossible to provide any answer in which you can’t be made to look like a clown, because every answer comes with baked-in counter arguments to it. Any answer you provide makes you look either heartless or clueless.
It almost makes me appreciate rage-bait as an art form.
Bill Burr’s commentary on the issue
Or, you know, just listen to women… Revolutionary, I know, and seemingly impossible to some, but that’s literally all you need to do to not be “trapped” (magically managing to claim victimhood where there is none, as per usual)… ¯\(ツ)/¯
Would you say the same if the argument was about the inherent danger of black men? If a bunch of white women were online saying black men are dangerous we wouldn’t say that black men calling it out were “magically claiming false victimhood” we’d say those women’s fears, even if they are truly felt, are a product of prejudice and unfair and they’re spreading of these ideas is damaging.
…but no one is making this racist except those trying to cause arguments, and those who don’t understand what women are saying.
Yes, if someone said something racist and meant it, they’d be a racist. Women are not doing that.
So, being sexist is ok, but being racist isn’t. Got it.
… But no one is being thrown into the woods with a random stranger or a bear. Like the original question this is a hypothetical meant to prove a point. The original point seems to be “the average man is dangerous” , this is meant to show that point can be prejudiced/sexist. It’s meant to show that the argument that some people are saying they’re afraid of a group therefore we must validate that fear can lead to some bad places and shouldn’t be used. This argument is at the core of what the comment I replied to.
It’s not proving reality it’s demonstrating a feeling, but as most people aren’t answering honestly, it’s just demonstrating the cultural environment. The most we can really say is women feel comfortable picking the obviously funny / polemic answer.
No, women are just being sexist
You seriously think women are equally afraid of white men as they are of black men, or Muslim men, or immigrant men?
The answer is no. Which is why right wing groups astroturfed this meme in the first place - to otherize minority groups and increase xenophobic policies. All under the name of protecting women/feminism
Which is what always happens - we need to protect our virginal women from the foreign hordes. Fascism has a pretty simple playbook
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I’m pretty sure every woman I regularly interact with has realized that white men are scarier than men of color, by and large. Have you been paying attention for the last 8 years?
Have you been paying attention for the last 8 years?
To all the men of color who keep getting disproportionately murdered and seen as superpredators? To all the white women who cross the street everytime they see a black man? To all the white mothers who refuse to send their kids to the public school because it’s too “”“dangerous”“”?
Yes I have noticed that.
I thought the victim was the bear, he doesn’t want some random ass woman bothering him shitting in the forest.
If you treat every person you meet as a predator, eventually you will only be left with those who are. The rest will just leave you to your own business and only the predators will pursue, yes?
Like, so incredibly no
Women don’t treat every man they meet as a predator, they treat every man as possibly a predator, which we are. You aren’t the target of sexism if a woman in the same bar as you keeps a lid on her drink.
No
Just curious, no to what? I am not challenging the idea of the thought experiment or the visceral fear that some people have toward a man vs a wild animal, just seems odd to me downplay one side and increase the risk of the other. In this thought experiment where we are using a meek bear, does it change if we use a polar bear. Does it change using a mountain lion or lion? A leapord? A rabid dog?
You appear to have significantly misinterpreted my comment, and proved my point in doing so.
It’s impossible to provide any answer in which you can’t be made to look like a clown
“Would you rather encounter a bear or a (black or muslim) man” is a good way to produce different results
Yeah because it turns out people can smell manipulative gotcha questions from a million miles away
Well you’ve also missed the point. It’s to provoke introspection in men. Not a debate on statistics.
I didn’t talk about statistics, nor did I answer the question at all. I fully get the point; I think you’ve missed the point if that was your takeaway from my comment.
Well it’s failed MASSIVELY then.
Yeah. Men refuse to ever admit fault. No surprise.
Haha yeah the unified feminist agency released this with a clear objective. It’s not engagement bait in the endless clout wars designed with nothing more than a desire to improve channel metrics and rise in the algo…
So it’s definitely not someone trying to get men to just fucking listen for once and it’s actually a conspiracy by media companies.
Men will blame ANYTHING rather than take the smallest blame. Fucking pathetic. I choose bear.
I don’t know why the question was asked in the city. Go out to the forest women and ask them.
In general, people and bears don’t want to hassle each other, doubly so for those in the woods. If you encounter either, you’re probably going to be fine. However, bears won’t stalk you, pretend to be friendly to gain your trust with the intention of harming you. Men won’t go into a blind rage because hibernation season is around the corner and you’re standing between them and a delicious tuna sandwich. Honestly if I’m alone in the woods I’d rather encounter an animal than a person because I was in the woods to be alone.
If you are in the woods and encounter a man or mountain lion
- make yourself look as big as possible
- maintain eye contact
- demonstrate you are a threat
- don’t trust his lies
If you encounter a bear
- avoid getting between a mother and her cubs
- take extra precautions to bearproof your food at your campsite
- back away slowly while facing the bear (without maintaining eye contact)
- under no circumstances should you fight a bear
My partner chooses the bear bc she has a vore fetish and gets turned on at the thought of being eaten.
