• lugal@sopuli.xyz
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    8 days ago

    Unpopular opinion: Last names are inherently patriarchal and so is marriage

    • Rooty@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      Unpopular opinion: Patriarchy as defined by feminists is a nebulous and unfalsifiable concept that can be replaced by “the devil” without changing the meaning of the sentence it’s used in.

      Also, serious posting in a shitposting thread.

      • shneancy@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        you could swap the subject of criticism with “the devil” in any sentence and it would be the same though?

        “the devil (covid-19) caused a pandemic”

        “the devil (billionaires) is pushing more people into poverty”

        “the devil (adhd) is making me procrastinate doing the dishes”

        “the devil (you) has really weak criticisms of feminism, since if only he read about it, he’d realise he can see and feel the effects of the patriarchy everywhere. and the way he talks right now makes me believe he only knows the concept from strawman memes”

        • Rooty@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          In these examples you used “the devil” as a placeholder for explainable phenomena with varying causes, none of them being unfalsifiable. Now consider the following sentence:

          “The wage gap is causes by the patriarchy” – Surely there are no complex causes being substituted by a nebulous concept here, is it?

          • shneancy@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            the concept is only “nebulous” to people who are talking out of their asses, when they haven’t even bothered to look past the word definition and strawman memes about the patriarchy

            man, please, stop making yourself look like a fool, go read about it, it’s really not that hard

    • tomi000@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      Why would that be the case? How would marriage between two equals in a non-patriarchy be patriarchal? What about marriage between two women? What about last names in a society of beings without gender?

      I think you didnt mean ‘inherently’

      • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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        8 days ago

        the patriarchy doesn’t benefit the male. in fact, most men are overall harmed by the forces of patriarchy.

        the goal of patriarchy is to subjugate and repress an “other,” that is, women. it’s true that patriarchy gives privelege to men, but equating privilege and benefit is to misunderstand the core components of the system.

    • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      8 days ago

      On Spain we have two last names, one for the father other for the mother.

      And while before the father’s was always the first, since many years couples of newborn babies can choose the order of the surnames.

        • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 days ago

          First last name. Example:

          Mother: Maria García Perez

          Father: Juan Rodríguez Domínguez

          Their kids can be named:

          Adela García Rodríguez

          or

          Adela Rodríguez García

          Ans once selected the order with the first kid all the kids from the same couple must follow the same order.

          • lugal@sopuli.xyz
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            8 days ago

            So it’s the mother’s father’s name, or the names of both grandfathers. Still patrilineal

    • dingus@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      Yeah I’ve always thought it was weird that women are supposed to give up their identity to a man to be married. I’m not really sure why hyphenated names aren’t as popular in the western world or why people don’t occasionally chose to take the woman’s name. I know that women don’t have to change their names, but then often you’ll have the kids as the same name as the father anyway but not the mother. So I’ve heard many women say that they did it so their kids would share their last name.

      Hell, I don’t even like my father. But my name is who I am and I like it.

      • LesserAbe@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Hyphenated names are too long. One of my good friends has one and people just refer to him and his siblings by the initials of their last name, like “Tim MP”

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        Been divorced twice, neither of them gave much of a shit and never changed their surname back. My wife’s Filipino and was very proud to take my surname. Ran right out and changed all her documents. Her enthusiasm was touching!

        I’m in the opposite place! Met my dad when I was 20 and he really wanted me to change to his surname. Sorry dad, that would have felt really weird.

      • Lauchmelder@feddit.org
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        8 days ago

        with hyphenated names: what would the children do then? you can’t keep adding more and more names like that (both practically and legally in some cases). serious question because I’ve also thought about that

        • dingus@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          I think it varies with culture, but from my understanding, usually they take the first name of the two hyphens for their own marriage.

          So you have John Doe and Jane Smith. They hyphenate their names as Doe-Smith and the children do as well.

          Say they have a daughter Sally Doe-Smith who meets Tim Johnson-Star. So they marry and hyphenate their names as Johnson-Doe. Both Smith and Star get dropped.

          Yes, in examples like this, it still ends up as getting rid of the maternal aspect of the lineage in the very end…but the point is still that both parties are keeping part of and changing another part of their names. It’s not an all or nothing total switch of identity. The lineage is male, but the here and now is an equal compromise of identity.

      • countrypunk@slrpnk.net
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        8 days ago

        The way that I’m gonna do it is whoever has the coolest/most unique last name is the one whose name is adopted. If they’re both equally cool, then hyphenated it is.

        • dingus@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          I would think it would be just as weird to collectively switch to matronymic last names as a society. It would make more sense to me if couples just decided which name they liked better and went with that, be it coming from the man or woman. So a more even split of that sort of pattern is what I mean.

      • lugal@sopuli.xyz
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        8 days ago

        Maybe all my downvotes come from people who say it’s the latter? I’ve been in bubbles that see it as a well known fact, I’ve talked to left leaning people who didn’t. Maybe it’s just a wording I used to attract attention, maybe not, we will never know for sure.